Laker Jim’s Fletch Cast
Laker Jim’s Fletch Cast
Interview with Burton Gilliam (Fletch)
Episode 14: Burton Gilliam
Time to sit back, relax, check that Bypass Line, and enjoy our interview with Fletch Legend Burton Gilliam. Burton rose to stardom in the Mel Brooks classic "Blazing Saddles." We talk about how he got his start and how his humble beginnings and hard negotiating skills led to him landing the role of a lifetime: Boyd Aviation Airplane Mechanic "Bud" in the comedy classic “Fletch.” We talk about his iconic dialog with Chevy and how exactly that whole scene came about. Beau Starr is not gonna like this one! During this conversation, the FletchCast crew burn enough fuel to go to South America and back with this cinematic treasure. We speak to him about working with Fletch Lives stars Cleavon Little, Randall Tex Cobb, and R Lee Ermy. Uhh, Gordo? You're not gonna want to miss a second of this hysterical ride down memory lane.
Visit Burton Gilliam on the web:
On Cameo: https://www.cameo.com/camptownladies
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0319096/
Facebook: @burton.gilliam
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P.S. Have a nice day. Fletch is Copyright 1985, 1989 Universal Studios and distributed by MCA/Universal Pictures. The Fletch Soundtrack is Copyright MCA Records. All images and sounds are the intellectual property of Universal Studios. They are used only with the intent of public appreciation of a great film and possible pu
FletchCast is Your Ultimate source for everything Fletch: the books, the movies, & the latest news about our favorite journalistic reporter, Irwin M. Fletcher.
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Fletch & Fletch Lives are Copyright 1985, 1989 Universal Studios and distributed by MCA/Universal Pictures. The Fletch Soundtrack is Copyright MCA Records. Confess, Fletch is Copyright of Miramax with Paramount distribution. All images and sounds are the intellectual property of Universal Studios. They are used only with the intent of public appreciation of a great film and possible publicity for its place among the great comedies of our time. We imply no rights to the characters or intellectual property created by Gregory McDonald, Universal or Miramax and is used for educational purposes only.
Hey there folks. This is Bud from Bullitt Aviation and you're listening to three guys who don't do a whole lot of singing with the Tabernacle Choir. If you catch my drift, laker, jim, jake and Big Bob. Take it away, boys.
Speaker 3:Broadcasting live and around the world from Cabana One, the only podcast. That's all ball bearings. Your ultimate source for everything, fletch.
Speaker 4:Moon.
Speaker 2:River.
Speaker 3:Thank you, doc, you ever serve time. Laker Jim and his beat reporters will stop at nothing to make sure Fletch lives forever, forever. They don't shower much. This is Fletchcast.
Speaker 5:Thank you, sammy, and welcome to Fletchcast. Thank you, sammy, and welcome to Fletchcast. I'm your host, Laker Jim. Along with me are two guys that just jackknifed a manure spitter on the Santa Ana.
Speaker 2:Jake and Big Bob.
Speaker 6:Oh, you should see our shoes. Tremendous buildup of gook.
Speaker 5:Boys. We have a really, really exciting show today. We are interviewing Burton Gilliam today.
Speaker 6:Great guy.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he'll be calling in. We have so many questions for him. One of our favorite scenes in Fletch is the airplane mechanic void aviation scene. I think we can all agree about that.
Speaker 6:Absolutely Probably one of the most quoted scenes in the movie. It's so simple.
Speaker 3:Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey, it's all ball bearings nowadays.
Speaker 6:And I can't wait to hear about what he has to say about it.
Speaker 4:I just want to know what his favorite shape of wing is.
Speaker 3:That's a terrific wing.
Speaker 2:I love this shape.
Speaker 5:Well, burton will be calling in shortly, but while we wait for his call, we have a little bit of Fletch news. A little bit. This is huge Fletch news. That's true, we got some big news.
Speaker 3:The Jane Doe Report.
Speaker 2:I'm turning the story over to a professional reporter.
Speaker 6:Okay, so a couple of things that we would like to talk about as we record this in early February of 2022, a couple of things have come to light in the last week or so. First, we were messaging with Greg Mottola, who is the director of the upcoming Confess Fletch, and initially we had heard that the film was going to go in front of distributors in early February. Greg Mottola messaged me and said that they decided to fully finish the movie before showing it to buyers. He says he starts mixing in a few days, which I'm sure he's doing that right now, and it should all be done by the end of February.
Speaker 5:It's amazing that Greg Mottola is like kind of letting us in step by step or bit by bit on the process of not only getting the movie made but how it gets released. But that sounds promising.
Speaker 6:It sure does, and to solidify that, on his Twitter page, his profile picture is now the Confess Fletch logo. Whether that's the movie poster remains to be seen, but is definitely the classic Fletch font that we've seen on the books for all these years, and in the description it says this so listen to this, greg Mottola, director, screenwriter, confess Fletch coming in 2022. So this is the year, boys, that we see Fletch return. And there was another thing to it that is really interesting. Pop culture warning it's not an exercise in 80s nostalgia. It's a new take on a literary character which we all knew. That was going to happen too. We knew that was a given.
Speaker 5:He's putting it out there, but people are aware.
Speaker 4:People have been warned. Yeah, we kind of want it to be that way. That was a given. But he's putting it out there. The people are aware. People have been warned. Yeah, we kind of want it to be that way. We don't want it to be what so many people have done and I'm not going to say which movies but so many times where they try to remake or do a sequel much later than the 80s, they try to duplicate the same thing. It'll be nice to have a different take on it and a new spin. You know, a new person playing Fletch and so on and so forth.
Speaker 6:Yeah, boys, we're going to be busy this year. This is going to be a busy year.
Speaker 5:It's going to be a lot of work, but super exciting. We are getting a phone call. The Fletch cast hotline is ringing. Look at the beaks. Hello, this is Laker Jim. You the guy from Ajax.
Speaker 1:Hola, I'm KSL Boudreaux.
Speaker 6:Yes, he did it.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to tell you that I'm bisexual. I mean bilingual. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh for me. I just I don't know what I was overcome.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:Tell me where you guys are located. You guys know I'm in Dallas, Texas. Where are?
Speaker 5:y'all Okay. Sure, this is Laker Jim Born and raised in New Jersey, but actually lived in Dallas for about six years.
Speaker 1:What part of town do you live in?
Speaker 5:Irving, right near the old cowboy practice facility Irving.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm in Allen. Actually Now I've heard of Allen.
Speaker 5:How far is Allen from Irving?
Speaker 1:It's just about as far north of Dallas, about 20 miles as Irving is from downtown Dallas, yeah both of them about 20 miles.
Speaker 6:My brother lives in Richardson.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, richardson is about 10 miles from me Okay, and then I'm in Austin, yep. Okay, you're in Austin, All right then.
Speaker 4:I'm Big Bob. I'm also from New Jersey, same place, laker Jim's from.
Speaker 1:Big Bob, you'd be surprised. You know what it's unbelievable. New Jersey for some reason I do a lot of. You know what Cameo is? Oh yeah, I get more from New Jersey than any place and I get more fan mail from New Jersey than any place. I'm not Brad Pitt. I don't get 8,000 a week. I get about 35 to 40 a week. That's still good.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Well, and I do one a day. I will write something personal to these people, whoever I'm answering if I'm answering seven or eight for that day, signing pictures for them and all that stuff but I'll always pick one a day just to tell them something. You know personal about me and I hear back from a lot of them. You know that's wonderful.
Speaker 5:We just interviewed Tim Matheson a few weeks ago and I told him a story about how, when I was a kid, I mailed him a letter, wrote him a bunch of Fletch questions and he actually took the time to answer them all, hand wrote the answers, mailed it back to me. How impactful it is for that one special person to receive that unique interaction with you, because 25 years later it's still impactful to me that Tim Matheson took the time out of his busy schedule and he was a star at the time, I mean in the nineties. Tim Matheson was a big deal. So for him to take that kind of time to respond to a fan, it, it, it stays with you forever.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Tim is that kind of guy though I haven't seen him in many years. He and I worked together. After I'd been in the business about three or four months, we did a movie of the week called Three Stars in the Window, called Three Stars in the Window Gosh, this is back in 1973, in December of 1973. And Tim was just a young actor really getting himself going, but he did a real good job of getting himself going. He's had a great career. 73 was a big year for you. It was oh. 73 was a himself going. He's had a great career. 73 was a big year for you, it was oh. 73 was a great year for me, not just in the business but changing my business.
Speaker 1:You know, I was a Dallas fireman for 14 years and in February of 1973, I got a phone call from this guy and I was at the fire station. My name's Mel Brooks. I'm a writer, director, producer, actor and I'm getting ready to do a big movie and I want you to be one of my stars. And I said thank you, mr Brooks, and I hung the phone up, said thank you, mr Brooks, and I hung the bone up Because I knew it was another fireman putting me on because I had just done a picture called Paper Moon. I took my vacation from the fire department to do the picture and never thought I would do anything else, but everybody in the Dallas fire department was giving me a bad time. They said that's what firemen do you know?
Speaker 4:Let me ask you this when you did get the part in Blazing Saddles playing Lyle, did Mel Brooks give you any kind of indication of why he chose you? And the question I have is was it how great you read for the role, or was it your iconic smile that you have Because you? Have one of the greatest, most memorable smiles you'll ever see in Hollywood.
Speaker 1:You know what? I've still got it.
Speaker 2:You do.
Speaker 1:You should see me smiling right now. I mean, that is a natural for me. Mel called me at the fire station and, of course, after I hung up on him, he called me back, talked to my captain. I go back and talk to him and he convinces me who he is, what he is. And he said I just saw a rough cut of Paper Moon last night and I want you to be one of my stars in my next picture. And that's the way he put it. I want you to be one of my stars in Blazing Settles. And I, of course, I told him no, I don't have any more vacation time coming.
Speaker 1:And there's a big long story that goes after that. I went out to see him three times. First, two times I told him no, and third time I found out he had a whole lot of money. But he did not say I like your smile, I like your enthusiasm, I like this, or that. He just said you're the guy I want for this part.
Speaker 1:And my character in Paper Moon was probably, I know, the character he wanted. But I gave him a different character in Blazing Saddles and he didn't say, hey, I want that character. Don't do it that way and create another character who was just as funny as the guy in Paper Moon. I just took it a little bit different step. In Paper Moon the guy my character, lloyd the Death Squirt, was absolutely funny. But he didn't know it, he was just a funny character, innate humor that the character really called for. And in Blazing Saddles I was just a stupid sidekick who didn't know, who didn't have any idea what he was doing other than following Slim Pickens orders. It was really two different characters, but Mel loved the second one so much he said he didn't correct me at all. He just let me go with the character.
Speaker 5:Now, before taking on the role, didn't Richard Pryor give you a call?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I told Mel. You know, after I told him no the first time, he said well, just come out and talk to me. Please Come out, dodge, and we'll pay for it. We'll bring you first class. I go out and see him. I met everybody in the room, all of his writers and producers there, all of his writers and producers. There were 10 of them, and I only recognized one of the guys. That was the guy on his left. That was Richard Pryor, and they offered me the part. I took the script back to my hotel, I read it, came back the next day and told Mel I can't do it, there's just nothing in here. This character you want me for is nothing. Well, he said, that's all we got. I go, get back on the plane, come to Dallas. And about four days later I got a phone call and this guy says hey, man, this is Richard. Who's Richard? He said Richard Pryor. Man, and I can.
Speaker 1:When I tell this story and I've told it a couple of times I get goosebumps every time. I tell it just like I got them right now, because I knew something was going on. He wasn't just calling me to say hey, thanks for coming out and letting us talk to you. I knew something was going on. He said listen, we really do want you for this part. Bill and I set up late last night and rewrote the whole part for you. You are now going to open the picture. You're going to tell how this picture is going to be crazy. You're going to tell a little bit of the story, but you're going to keep the rest of it a secret. And I said, golly, okay, I'll come back and talk to you. Well, I went back and talked to him and Mel and Richard were so absolutely great to me as they both were when we shot the picture. But I told them no again because we couldn't get together on money.
Speaker 5:Damn, you played hardball.
Speaker 1:I was playing the hardest hardball, but you know what it was real. I mean, Mel sent me around to see the casting lady, Nessa Hines, who became vice president of Universal, and she kept telling me that there's really no money in this part and I, just after about the third time, I said well, thank you, ma'am, I'm not able to do it for nothing.
Speaker 1:I got up, went back, got on the plane, went to Dallas. The next day I get a call from Mel. He says what happened? I said y'all don't have any money. He said well, how much money did she offer you? And I said she didn't offer me any. She just kept saying there's no money in this park. So I left. He said I'll call you back in five minutes. He called me back in about two minutes and he said I want you to come back and sit down and talk to me. We're going to work this out. And I said oh man, I can't come back now. I've taken off twice from the fire station. And he said when can you come? And I said oh, I don't know about a week. He said well, we've still got three weeks towards until we put a film. He said call my office when you can come back. We'll get it all set up.
Speaker 1:I go back and sit down in front of him and he says well, how much is it going to take for us to get you to do this part? And of course I knew then that they were warning me pretty bad. So I just said I just shocked the moon. I said well, you know, at the fire station the Dallas Fire Department this is in 1973. I said I couldn't do it for any less than I make in a year and I make $12,000 a year at the fire department. He said, oh, we're going to give you three weeks on the picture. That'd be $4,000 a week. That's okay.
Speaker 1:Wow, I was not prepared for that. I thought I was just taking a trip out there and having a good time on their money and I was going to be telling them no, I can't do it. They're telling me yes, you can do it, we will do it. So I quit three weeks. Two weeks later I quit the fire department, went to Hollywood, stayed for 23 years and I did not do three weeks on the picture, I did four and a half weeks on the picture. Oh yeah, and it was over time. I made $25,000. I had never in my life thought about making that kind of money, you know. And it just got better from there, you know. Thank you, mel, it's all right. Thank you, Richard. Oh, golly.
Speaker 6:But Richard, eventually, you know, left and Cleavon Little stepped in. Could you talk about working with him? And you know because he was in the second Fletch movie, oh golly, a week.
Speaker 1:And sometimes these things aren't known, but sometimes the star of your picture will not really work out just right for the producers and the director, and those people will be tanned. I've had that. I've been on pictures. I've been on three or four pictures that that's happened. After about three days they say this person's not working right, let's get somebody else. Well, that's exactly what Richard was hoping for. That never happened. But after a week I never saw him again. I never saw him again. But he was just so good to me. He wrote every word I said in that first scene. Everything I said, all the bad words were mine.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, now it makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does make sense. And when we were doing it was at about the second or start of the third week, I guess that we did the first scene of the picture where I was calling all the guys, the bad words and everything. And I was here. I am from Dallas, texas. I've heard all those words many times in my years. I grew up on those words. That was just we're talking about deep South, we're talking Dallas, texas, and I was having a little bit of trouble, which caused me to lose my concentration, I guess, and I would have trouble with the lions.
Speaker 1:And after about 30, 40 minutes we were changing camera setups and Cleavon said hey, let's go out and walk with me out on the desert here, let's talk about something. I said, oh, okay. We went out about 30 yards away. He said listen, I know you're having a lot of trouble here. He said but these are just lands that Richard and Mel wrote. They don't mean anything. This is all fun, this is a movie we're doing. She said just, don't worry about anything. You want to call me. If you want to make up some stuff and call me anything you want to, it's fine. I said, oh and boy, we turned around and headed back to go back to Burton. But then he stopped and he said but if after they say cut, if you say any of those orders, we're going to have trouble. He was just so great.
Speaker 1:Everybody in the world that knows that Richard was their first choice would have loved to have seen that. But would it have been as good as what Cleavon did? Would it be better? We'll never know. And because of that, blazing Saddles will never, it'll never die. It's going to be with us as long as movies are being made, as long as people are talking about movies. It'll be Clevon they're talking about, because he was absolutely great in it and such a good guy, such a good guy.
Speaker 5:What an absolute shame that we lost him so soon to colon cancer. I think he was only 53 years old.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh. Yes, he and Madeline were the first two to go, and they've been gone over 20 years. You know, mel and I are the only two left. We're it. Everybody's gone, and Mel used to years ago when we'd lose somebody he'd get on the phone and call each one of us. You know one per call. I mean I haven't heard from him since Alex died. You know he doesn't go to the office anymore when the pandemic started. Mel still has the office, but he's failed and goes to the office, so I never get to talk to him anymore. What a great guy he was for me, though, golly.
Speaker 5:What a great guy he was. For me, though, Golly Peter Bogdanovich saw somethingplay to Fletch, also wrote Blazing Saddles. Now how did he fit in with Mel and Richard?
Speaker 1:He was the guy that wrote the first draft of Blazing Saddles. It was his story, but I wish I'd been able to see the first draft of it, but I know that they changed a lot of it. But Andrew golly, he was just brand new and Mel just loved the way he wrote and said, hey, we're going to do this. I mean within about 10 months. We're going to do this, I mean within about 10 months.
Speaker 5:we were shooting the picture. I got to tell you a quick story when I first moved out to Texas. I'll never forget the very first day. The very first day I was there unpacking my stuff. I had the TV on in the background and I hear this voice. It's a very familiar voice, very distinct voice. I know this very distinct voice. I think to myself where do I know this voice from? It's a car commercial for Rodeo Ford. And then it hits me it's you, it's Bud from Fletch, and I'm thinking he's doing local car commercials. I have to find this guy. Little did I know. I didn't have to look very far. You were everywhere Billboards, commercials every other second, golf events, comic-con signings. You were basically the mayor of Texas.
Speaker 4:St Patrick's Day, MC.
Speaker 5:You were everywhere and I did get to meet you a couple of times and you couldn't have been nicer to me and, to make a long story short, too late. Uh, that's how I kind of got your phone number, because we had exchanged uh information, because you wanted to get a couple of fletch photos that I had, and and uh, the rest is history. Wow, that was 2007. Golly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's been about 15 years ago, doing those rodeo Ford things, and my tagline was and I made this up myself was we don't care how you get here, just get here.
Speaker 5:And your other famous line was that's too cheap, that's too cheap, that's right. That was the next thing oh my God, If you weren't getting a piece of the action, you were literally everywhere.
Speaker 1:It was everywhere.
Speaker 5:That's right. Well now I got to hear the commercial.
Speaker 1:Trucks trucks, trucks, trucks, trucks trucks, trucks.
Speaker 3:Rodeo Ford, home of the 11888 F-150. My gosh, that's too cheap. Over a billion for second chance finance and Rodeo Ford pays off your trade, even if you owe 12,000 more than it's worth, even if it's a lease 11888. And if you can find a better deal anywhere, we'll just give it to you. 877-goal-rodeo. Five minutes from downtown Dallas east on I-30. Rodeo 4.
Speaker 1:We don't care how you get here, folks, just get here and we only did those for about three years. Then the company sold and I was out of the car business for about two years. And then Bonham Chrysler called me and the owner said you've been out of the car business for about a year and a half now. He said I want you to get back in it and I want you to do commercials for me. And I said and I didn't know who this guy was my wife and I were in Hawaii and this guy called me in Hawaii. He said well, when you get back to Dallas, call me, because we're going to do this. I get back to Dallas.
Speaker 2:He said how much are you going to?
Speaker 1:charge. I told him and I gave him between you and me. I gave him a price that was way above what I expected and I thought, well, he will knock a couple thousand dollars off of that per month and we'll make some kind of deal. He said okay, and that went for 12 years. The pandemic put a stop on that, but oh, it was a great run for car commercials for me.
Speaker 5:I loved it. Yeah, yeah, oh, that was great. All right, so back to Fletch. Yeah, okay, so tell us a little bit about how you heard of the role, how the role came to you.
Speaker 1:Well, Andrew called my agent. I've forgotten who the casting director was on it, but it was one of the big ones, gosh, I've forgotten who it was. But Andrew called my agent and of course I was still in Hollywood then. I didn't leave until I was there from 73 until 96. I was there from uh 73 till 96. Uh, but he just called my. Uh. My agent said we want him to do this. Um, I didn't have to read for it. He, you know I worked, he he knew what I did and he wanted, wanted me to do that character. Uh and uh. Yeah, we did it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was a scene that was not originally in the movie. They sort of like I guess Michael Rich had gotten a hold of an airplane hanger, that's right. He was like, hey, write me a quick scene for the airplane hanger, and they kind of threw that in.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right, and I'm glad they did because it is, you know it, really, for me it's really a great little throw. I was going to say a throwaway part, but it's not a throwaway part, it's a major part.
Speaker 1:Not at all, and the Lions were just wonderful, and Chevy and I we actually changed a lot of stuff. Well, I didn't, he did, and it was really. He did a great job in putting it all together. Really, he was a master at what he did and he just wanted me to follow along, and so we just kind of made it up as we went and it was a great, a great scene it really was some, some of your lines are so iconic I mean you in a short few, some of them seen you have 10 iconic quotes that probably fletch fans and people, movie fans, everywhere quote.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean honestly, the real estate that got out of you. You have about, you know, 10, 8, 10, 15 lines, whatever. Every one of those lines you make memorable and every one of those lines we quote on our podcast constantly.
Speaker 1:So you really did amazing the fact is that you know every part I've done. I've never looked at it as saying, hey, that's a great line, for me that's a great. I've just said the lines in the way that I thought they should be said and, boy, when I see it on screen, I say wow, that line, those lines really jump out. I surprise myself. Actually, If they give me enough shots at it, I'm going to come out and put it all good.
Speaker 5:Now you and Chevy actually removed yourselves from everybody and you kind of reworked that scene.
Speaker 1:He called me up the day before we did that scene and I'd never met him and he told me who he was and said listen, we'll work over here at uh uh some park in Beverly Hills. He said I hate to see that you and I are doing, but but we it. It's a scene that has to be done. We've got to do it. Uh, it ties things together. Said uh.
Speaker 1:He said what are you doing for lunch today? I said well, nothing. He said well, why don't you come over for lunch? And I said okay, I didn't know what I was going to be doing with him. I went over and waited 30, 40 minutes for lunch. They call lunch, they bring our lunch to his dressing room. And he said I don't like these words, let's just you and I make them up as we go. And I said what he said yeah. He said I know you can do that. I've seen your work, I know that you can do that. And I said yeah. He said I know you can do that. I've seen your work, I know that you can do that. And I said oh, okay, and that's what we did.
Speaker 5:Burton, while we're on this topic, we actually have a question from a fan who called in, big fan of yours, big fan of the podcast, calling in from Ireland. Let's take a listen to his question.
Speaker 2:Hello, mr Gilliam. My name is Kieron, calling in from Ireland. Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions Certainly fantastic, and a big thank you to Lisa James-Fletcher for the opportunity as well. I could ask you about can-turn races or giving Martin a flight of gun, but I'm happy to ask about the prep work that was done with Boostar and Flex. Did the two of you just go entirely from scripts or was there any discussion between the two of you as to the dynamic you would have? Clean and distrusting and easy and stunning and very accommodating to Flex, by all means? Or, if you guys had to, you know you yourselves looked like you knew something about actually working on airplanes before getting into the scene. Thanks again, burton, look forward to hearing your answer and lots of love from Ireland. Sir, stay fair.
Speaker 1:Great question, kieran. Now you know there's another guy in the scene with us, another mechanic, airplane mechanic. Yes, I don't know who he was, who he is. Never saw him again. That was the only time I ever saw him. We did not tell him. We didn't tell him what we were doing. His lines. Every time he says a line. Look at him and listen to him.
Speaker 5:It's like he looks a little confused. He does have a confused look on his face.
Speaker 1:He was confused man and Chevy said don't tell him what we're doing. Don't tell him. And it worked for him. It really did, because he had no idea what we were doing. And you know, when you finish, when you work for somebody, I don't care if you've worked for a day or you've worked for three or four weeks when you finish, at the end of your day, when they say it's a wrap on you, you go to the other guys, other people, you say, hey, I enjoyed working with you these last few weeks or the day, or whatever, I don't know. He didn't look us up and say, hey, we had a good time. I mean, when they said that's a wrap, he got this car and went home he wasn't real happy with us but it worked.
Speaker 1:But it worked for him, you know. But it turned out great, the scene turned.
Speaker 6:it turned out great, the scene turned out great.
Speaker 1:It turned out great and every time I see Chevy and I've only seen him six or seven times since we did the picture, but he will always. If we're in a group of people, he will always find me and he'll remind me of that scene that we did together. He loved the picture and he loved, he loves, loved the picture and he loved our work together. In the picture he's just so good to me.
Speaker 5:Did you do any research like airplane research or anything like that before you? Got the part as the mechanic or you just solely winged it.
Speaker 1:I winged it. I knew nothing about an airplane.
Speaker 6:You didn't know what a Fetzer valve was, or anything like that. I didn't know what a Fetzer valve was, or anything like that.
Speaker 1:I didn't know what a Fetzer valve was. I didn't know, but I found out when he finally told me it was really all about Paul Baric. I knew that must be true, he was so old. I do, that must be true, he was so old. And you know, at the end of the season he's telling me to go get six quarts of some kind of motor oil yeah, quaker State. But it was not Quaker State, it was some other kind of oil. But he changed it to Quaker State because I was doing a series of commercials for Quaker State right through. Wow, and he knew that it was just great. He just said make it Quaker State, such Quaker State, switch to Quaker State. That's incredible.
Speaker 1:A little instant joke he just threw that. He knew that the Quaker State people would love it.
Speaker 6:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads, and I'm going to need about 10 quarts of antifreeze, preferably Prestone. Oh, I'll make that Quaker State. What are more people using?
Speaker 1:to help their cars. Last Quaker State Motor Oil Shooter, quaker State, hey Quaker State.
Speaker 3:What are more people using to help them avoid expensive engine repairs? Quaker State, quaker State. Quaker State helps cars last. Maybe that's why Quaker State's the best-selling motor oil in America.
Speaker 2:Now since Bo.
Speaker 5:Starr, the other actor went home mad. Did you wind up fixing the bypass line by yourself?
Speaker 1:Yes, right, right, I went home by myself. It was really a great day. We shot it over Burbank Airport in a hangar. I've worked in a hangar a number of times at the Burbank Airport.
Speaker 6:How was Michael Ritchie at the Verbeck Airport?
Speaker 1:How was Michael Ritchie? Michael Ritchie is a genius. He wasn't very talkative. When I watched him work with other people he was more like Peter McDonavich in that he'd do every piece, every part of everybody's job. He knew about camera. Both of them knew about camera. They know about sound, they know about editing, they know everything. And Michael Ritchie was that kind of guy, a real professional. And that's not to say that Mel votes certainly in a professional. Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:But Mel, just let other people do their job, whereas the guys we're talking about, they knew everybody else's job and they were not above correcting them, and they did a lot of times.
Speaker 6:And that was just a one-day shoot. You guys just shot that in a day.
Speaker 1:That was one-day shoot, yeah, but they paid me a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Well knowing your bargaining techniques.
Speaker 4:I'm sure they did.
Speaker 1:I did a picture. This is often. I did a picture called Wild Bill. Do you remember that?
Speaker 6:That wasn't with Jeff Bridges, was it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was Jeff Bridges. Yes, I remember that that was the fourth time I'd worked with Jeff and the director, who was a big director and I can't call his name now.
Speaker 6:Walter Hill. Walter Hill was the director.
Speaker 1:Walter Hill.
Speaker 6:There you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Walter called me about a week before and he said listen, we've had to cut this part down a little. We're only going to need you for four days. Part down a little, we're only going to need you for four days. A couple days later he calls me. He said we're way behind, they're cutting things out. We're only going to need you If you don't want to do the picture, that'll be okay. Oh, I'm fine, for 10 days. He said if you don't want to do the picture, it's okay, but if you do and you don't even want to put your name on the credits, that'll be fine. We don't care, You're still got to get your money if you want it. And they paid me a lot of money to do one hour's work. I went in and you see my back. You see my back and you hear me say something as I'm walking off. They cut the whole character out.
Speaker 6:Oh wow, that's a shame.
Speaker 1:They paid me a lot of money. I've forgotten how much it was, but I think it was something like $12,000. For an hour's work I said wait, that's pretty good money. I'll be glad to do that.
Speaker 4:Walter Hill. It was yeah, I said it before and I'm going to say it again you know there's a lot of things I this is Big Bob again a lot of things. I know you from specifically Back to the Future selling Colt, Peacemakers or Honeymoon in Vegas when you're. You know the Flying Elvises.
Speaker 1:You Dollar Chester.
Speaker 4:You know, whatever you do, you are getting, even if you're only in a scene or two for any movie you're in, you're one of the most memorable characters in any movie that you're in. I wouldn't even remember Honeymoon in Vegas without your scene, which I was talking to Laker Drum about earlier.
Speaker 1:You know, something.
Speaker 1:So kudos to you. I'm going to tell you something that I've never told anybody. I may have told my wife. I'm disappointed that directors and producers did not see me as well as people like Peter McDonavich and Mel Brooks I should have had. I'm going to tell you I should have had a bigger career than I've had. It's been wonderful, it has really been great. When you throw in all the television at over 200 commercials. It's been great. But I should have had a bigger career and it's because directors and producers did not know what to do with me.
Speaker 1:Plus, I have to put some of the blame on myself because I did not know anything about the business. I had to learn it from the ground up. I knew when I went out to do blazing sales. I knew what a close-up was and that was it. I did not know how to talk to business, did not know the lingo, did not know anything about it. My first agent, if he had just said, hey, go hang out with some actors. I didn't know anybody in Hollywood. I couldn't call up the people I did Blazing Saddles with and say, hey, this is Barton, because I didn't know how to network to do that I didn't know how to network.
Speaker 1:And I did not know how to network until about two and a half years later. I went through a period of about six months where I didn't do anything. I went to see my agent, steve Stevens at that time, who was a great director, great for my career, and I went and I said, steve, I think they've just finally caught up with me, they finally figured out I don't have the talent and I don't know what to do. Here I am, I've worked all this time and now, six months, I hadn't gone out for anything. I said I just found out I don't have any talent and I'm not going to work again. He said are you crazy?
Speaker 1:At that time I'd done probably six or seven pictures and a lot of television, a few commercials. He said you know, you can get lucky and do three or four or five things, but after that your luck runs out. You can't make a career. You've got a career going and it's not my luck, it's my talent. He said what are you doing every day? I said I don't know. I go up with a slug and poo. He said start hanging out with some actors. I said I don't know, I'll go up with a swimming pool. He said start hanging out with some actors. He said call up this person. He says I know, you know these people. Call them up, tell them you want to go to lunch with them. Call Slim Pickens, tell him you want to go to lunch with him. And I started doing that and I started learning the business here. I'd been in the business for two and a half years and didn't know anything, but I started finding out those things.
Speaker 1:The more you learn, the more you know you can learn and I did, but I missed out on a lot of things in the first couple of years that should have put me in a spot that was not untouchable, but untouchable for the kind of characters that I did.
Speaker 5:So you heard it first here Thinking back to that caller for a minute. Uh, it really makes me feel great to know that fletch and actors like yourself are so beloved globally. You know that the reach is beyond the united states, that it's a global love for a movie like this and a character like you played and an actor like you are. Uh, do you see that kind of outreach from fans? I mean because whenever we get fan mail, uh from listeners from korea or japan or the uk or ireland, it's so humbling. Do you get that reaction when you go to other countries? Have you ever been to Ireland?
Speaker 1:So I've been to Scotland and England and the people there are wonderful. I get mail, you know fan mail from all the British Isles and I get them, you know, from European countries. I've gotten a couple from Russia and those are always a treat to get because they are the people that write them. You have to piece it together like you were talking about, because sometimes I'm trying to figure out exactly what they're asking me, you know and I'll always write them.
Speaker 6:Do people still talk to you about Fletch? Is that a big cameo thing? Write them. Do people still talk to you about Fletch? I mean, is that one of your roles?
Speaker 4:Yeah, is that a big cameo thing for you? Do people want you to drop some bud lines from Fletch?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh gosh, but really 90% of it is Blazing Suns, okay. Is Blazing Saddles Okay? All of these things that I do are. I will always sing to the Camptown ladies. Oh, it's your 78th birthday. Well, how about joining me as I sing a good old Blazing Saddles happy birthday work song? You know the song that I sang in Blazing Saddles. Come on, boys, where's your spirit? I don't hear no singing. It's half-time. We're just singing this song and I'll do. You know birthdays and anniversaries and all of that sort of stuff. I do a lot of those things. I'll do three or four tonight, oh wow, but Blazing Saddles is the one that nearly 90% of them do.
Speaker 5:Honeymoon in Vegas is real big and Fletch those are the top three right there so what are your favorite Fletch quotes, like, what are your favorite ones that fans ask you to say or you love to say to the fans?
Speaker 1:Fletch, let's see, I'll do Fletch, he ain't doing no stunt line up there and he sure ain't doing no fighting with the Tabernacle bar. I think it's the bypass line, you know, and it's all about Paul Verne Gordo. That's great. Those are fun things.
Speaker 5:Burton, you were good friends with Burt Reynolds, oh gosh, and Burt was once up for the role of Fletch before Chevy. Do you think Burt could have pulled that one off?
Speaker 1:golly, I just think. I just think that Chevy was so perfect for it. I do not see, although Bert, that was back when Bert was the hugest of the huge and he would have been loved for it, he would have, I just know he would have, but I didn't, golly, and I would have loved working with him again. Uh, you know he wanted me to do the the smoke. You know I did.
Speaker 6:uh, gator with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gator, yeah, I remember that, yeah and then, and then what a year later or so he, he calls in wants me to do Spooky the Bandit.
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:Bandit Spooky.
Speaker 2:Spooky.
Speaker 1:He wanted me to and I couldn't get loose. I was doing something that I could not get loose from and he wanted me to do Jackie Gleason's son Junior.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay, yeah, yeah you were a great guy.
Speaker 6:I would have loved it, and you worked with Bert on Evening Shade there for a while too, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 1:I did three years of that and finally I was doing nothing on it. I'd do three lines and boom, I was gone. Bert wanted me to do the show and I mean that was gone. Bert wanted me to do the show and I mean that's it. He wanted me to do it and I did it, but I didn't. I was on it for three years, played a character named Virgil. I never figured out who my character was. I never did. I would just say lines, say three lines. And that was it.
Speaker 1:The end of the third year I went and Bert saw me and I said Bert, I like doing this. I'll tell you what I was making $2,250 a show. I only worked three days a week. I worked Wednesday, thursday, friday, because it wasn't. You know, it was nothing to do. An idiot could do it.
Speaker 1:And I said Bert, I'm not getting anywhere on this show. I said if I'm to do it, you're going to have to double my pay. And I hate to tell you that, but that's just the way it is. There's nothing for me to do. He said Linda, what's her blood worth? She won't go for that. I said I just can't come in here and do this anymore. I just hate what I'm doing, there's nothing to do. He said okay, I understand. He said I'll throw up the number. He said but I know what they're going to say and that's what they said. So it went four years. I just did the first three and I'm glad I did it that way and I never knew why they did four years. It never went into syndication. So you know, every now and then somebody will pick it up, but it never went to syndication.
Speaker 5:Now the Fletch universe has two boxers in it, and you're one of them. Really, Talk to us a little bit about your boxing career. Oh, boxing career.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and I did have a good amateur Golden Gloves career and I fought a lot of guys that were professionals, that I could went on and were professionals. Beat the heck out of them. I was scared to death I swear I was. But that being scared, I swear, made me a better fighter. I know it took a lot of energy out of me but, gosh, I didn't like getting hit, I hated it. I should have won the Olympics. I did not win the Olympics. I lost twice to guys in 1960 and 1964. I let guys beat me. They couldn't fight away. They went on to the Olympics. But I had a great time. I got to meet a lot of people. I went on and became a boxing referee.
Speaker 6:It was a fun time. My brother is a huge boxing fan and he texted me and wanted me to ask you what you thought your biggest fight was that you ever refereed.
Speaker 1:I refereed 10 world championship fights, but the first fight, that gosh. What's the kid's name? What on the world, steve, when you're dealing with an 83-year-old man and you are dealing with an 83, it just goes away. I'll think of his name to ask you tomorrow. I'll call you De La Hoya, de La Hoya, de La Hoya.
Speaker 2:There he is Okay From.
Speaker 1:East.
Speaker 5:LA. Yeah, he is Okay From.
Speaker 1:East.
Speaker 2:LA yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I read his first fight, first professional fight, wow, wow. And because it was his fight, his first pro fight, I mean it was a standing room only. I mean it was a standing room only. The fire department came in and, boy, they were really upset with all the people that were in there, but they let the fight go on and anyway, I refereed his first fight. It was a six-rounder and he won by knockout in my third round or so, but I count that as about the biggest fight I ever did.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the other guy who was in the Fletch universe that was a boxer was Randall Tex Cobb.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 5:Referee of one of his fights. Now, what would a fight between you and him have looked like, with both of you guys?
Speaker 4:in the frame. He only outweighed you by about 70 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was in another weight class, for sure. He was a Texas Golden Gloves boxing champion too one time in I don't know early 70s, somewhere along in there. And there's a guy that had a pretty good career should have been bigger than it was because he was Randall. Tex Cobb was, I think, really a fine actor. He didn't. I don't know what he's doing now, but I guess he's still alive. See, when you get my age you start thinking about, when you talk about people you say I wonder if he's alive.
Speaker 5:Randall Tex Cobb is kind of like you actually, because in any movie he's in he sort of steals the moment. He's the guy you remember, he's the scene you remember, even if it's a small part.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. You remember his part for sure, and he's had some real good roles, really good roles. Yeah. Yeah, I don't agree. You would have knocked him out though, right? Oh gosh, he wouldn't have lasted five seconds.
Speaker 6:Oh golly, oh golly. I wanted to ask you because I was looking through. You know you worked on some like classic 1980 series when we grew up, like you did. You know you did the Fall Guy and you did the A-Team. You were on the Dukes of Hazzard a few times. So talk a little bit about working on some of those yeah, I mean just Dukes was fun.
Speaker 1:This is the honest-to-gosh truth. That's one of my things that I could have done but didn't do. Didn't get to do. The guy that created Dukes call his name. He lived in the same apartment complex I did.
Speaker 6:Well, guy Waldron or Jerry Guy Waldron, guy Waldron, yep.
Speaker 1:He called and said listen, bert said I haven't told you this, but I've been writing in a series called Dukes of Hazzard and it's an ABC show. It's already been picked up and I want you to play the part of Luke Duke. Wow, the Dukes of Havre. He said I want you to play the part of Luke Duke. We're going to go over tomorrow and we're going to see Brandon Stoddard who is the vice president of whatever talent or whatever it was at ABC. We're going to go have lunch with him tomorrow. To be a recurring character on a TV show, you have to have network approval. I didn't know that. He said let's go have lunch with him tomorrow. I said oh, okay, so we go over and we have lunch with Brandon Stoddard. Have a great time.
Speaker 1:We talk about the characters, but not in depth at all. We just talked about all the people that were going to be on the show and who they were talking to and I thought, hey, man, this is a done deal, we get back home. But about two hours later I get a phone call and he said Brandon Stoddard thinks you're too old for this character. And I was. I'm about ten years older than Tom Lopat and John Schneider, he was right about that, but I think they just went with age, because I didn't look my age At that time I was about 35, but I looked like I was late 20s, somewhere along there, and I could have played the part. But they decided that because of my age I was too old for the part and away that went. Now that only cost me I don't know $15, $20, $30 million.
Speaker 2:So I'm not upset by that at all.
Speaker 1:But that is the honest to gosh truth. I have never told that to Tom or John, but it is the truth.
Speaker 5:That is the truth. Wow, you could have played a good Roscoe, yeah, or maybe a Cuda or Cuda you could have played a good Roscoe, yeah, or maybe Cooter.
Speaker 1:It's funny. Cooter would have been right up my alley, but Roscoe. They did call me back about a week later and wanted me to come in and read for Roscoe. I read the part. I read the part. My agent read the part. I was with Steve Stevens at the time. He said they're going to go with somebody that is much older looking than you. He did much and he said I don't think you ought to even go and read. So I didn't. I didn't go read for it and they made the right decision, golly.
Speaker 6:James.
Speaker 1:Best, james Best.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was absolutely great as a picture. And Jimmy Best when we did Gator he was a good friend of Bert's and Bert had never directed a picture. Bert had never directed a picture. Jimmy Best was right on Bert's shoulder for every foot of film that they shot. He trusted in Jimmy Best to help him get through with all the things that Bert did not know about directing. But one of these days Tom and I will sit out. I haven't seen Tom in 40 years, no, 15 years, but I don't know if Steve will give one of these days. There's a bunch of Duke stuff that goes around. I went to one a couple of years ago that john was at, but uh, uh, tom wasn't there. And I'll, I'll, I'll tell tom nothing I know he doesn't know that I know he doesn't.
Speaker 6:You still stay busy with that kind of stuff though, don't you? I mean with just like the conventions and stuff.
Speaker 1:You're still pretty busy, oh yeah oh, I do you know, until the pandemic came along, golly, I was doing all these shows that really do very well. You know, gosh there'll be, some of them will in three days will bring like 12,000 people in and it's all done in cash I like that.
Speaker 5:You're actually going to be in my backyard in New Jersey at the end of April for Chiller.
Speaker 1:Yes, for Chiller that's in April. Yeah, end of April, I think Is that when it is chiller, that's in uh april. Yeah, end of april, I think is that what it is right. After that, uh, I'm gonna put a month to part, that I'm gonna go to a couple of places in uh canada I'm gonna do uh, what's right across from uh niagara falls. What's the product? Yeah, yeah. And and then Montreal is later on in the summer, like or August, something like that.
Speaker 5:I'll do seven or eight of those this summer, and they're all really good ones, you know Right now the plan is for me to be there, so if I am there I definitely will stop by and say hi.
Speaker 1:Oh good, because Chiller is the big one, I mean the people that run that thing. Oh my gosh, they've got it down to a science. It's just so good.
Speaker 5:Wow, and you're so great to the fans too. I mean, I've met you a few times at those Comic-Cons but you know just to see the time you take with everybody.
Speaker 1:I mean, whatever you charge, the fan gets their money's worth with you, I've found out that my thing is being able to say a little something to everybody, and if you've got 15 people in line it's kind of hard to do that, but I will always find out where they're from or what do you do for a living or something you know. And if I've got plenty of time, hey, sit down here, we'll talk for a while. Oh, you got somebody you want to call and say hello to? Well, I'll call you another $20. Let's talk to three or four people. I'm good at making deals, you know.
Speaker 4:Hey, you know what I wanted to ask you before you go, because I have a friend who's a big video game guy when you did that video game you did you actually what I wanted to ask you before you go, Because I have a friend who's a big video game guy. When you did that video game, you did you actually did two of them Redneck Rampage and then the sequel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did Redneck Rampage.
Speaker 4:You know, jim and I were teenagers, probably in high school, maybe on a Friday night, nothing to do playing that Our friend Matt used to have us over. He always played video games. He had that game. Did that take a long time for you to do that, or is that another flex situation where it only took you? Oh?
Speaker 1:no, that took one day. It was a lot of dialogue.
Speaker 4:We were cracking up playing that? I don't even think at the time. Truth be told, I don't think we realized it was you in that role we should have because we know your voice so well. Like Jim said, he heard you in a commercial from a room away, but I'm going to go back and actually you can watch these video games on YouTube now being played.
Speaker 4:I'm going to go back and watch it and look for you, because I remember at the time it was such a funny game, it was pure comedy, and I got to now go back. Now that I'm noticing it again, go back and find me in that.
Speaker 1:And you know what? Of course, I've got three or four of those, you know, copies of those games. I've never watched them, I've never played it. I've seen them. I've been in places where it's running, you know, and they showed it to me when we were doing the thing, but it was just foreign to me. I'm from a different era.
Speaker 6:It was crazy stuff. I got to ask you one more question. You worked on the Terror Within 2 with R Lee Ermey, who was a big part of the Fletch sequel.
Speaker 1:He played one of the leads, yeah.
Speaker 6:So tell me about him and working with him.
Speaker 1:Oh he you know, lee Ermey was not an actor but boy. He had one character in him, that and that was his real character. He was who he was. You know, he was his real character. He was who he was. He was that drill instructor. He was real man. And we have a golf tournament here every year that he came to until he died three or four years ago four years ago, I guess and we still have the tournament. I mean, I'm not part of putting it on, but I play it every year and they give a, they give a big trophy to the winner. My team won it last year. It's a trophy that's about two feet tall and of course she's got lee erby on there, all written all over the thing?
Speaker 5:Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was just such a good guy and he knew that he was never going to be a great actor. But put him in that part, put him in a character that he knew. Oh, he was it. He was it Lee Irving, go Ermey Golly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, good guy, tim Matheson, mentioned to us that the only thing about Chevy was he didn't feel like an actor. Is that something you noticed when working with Chevy?
Speaker 1:Well, maybe I never thought of it that way, but I've always seen him just as a funny person and I was told you know, steve Stevens was the first show to tell me by Asia's time. He said you're not going to enjoy working with this guy because he eats actors up and spits them out. Nobody likes to work with him. I loved working with him and I've heard that many times since then. Before then, I love Chevy Chase and he has always been that jovial character that I see on the screen. I just yeah, that's the way. I'll always see him as being one of his funny characters.
Speaker 5:When you come across Fletch on the TV, do you leave it on for a little bit? Do you watch it?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, sure, oh gosh, yeah, and it's his favorite picture he ever did because he played little characters three, four, five-o you five.
Speaker 3:Oh, you know picture he.
Speaker 4:He loved it yeah yeah, good guy now have you heard about the, the new upcoming movie that's coming out for fletch.
Speaker 5:No, yeah, we're finally getting another fletch, and fletch is going to be played by john ham. Are you familiar with his work? He was in Mad Men.
Speaker 1:I'm going to look him up, but he's going to do Fletch. Is he going to be written by McDonald or whatever his name was?
Speaker 6:Oh, gregory McDonald, yes.
Speaker 1:Based on one of the books he wrote about 20 of those things you know, and Chevy thought he was going to be Fletch for many, many, many years. But, they did do Fletch's lives. The problem was it died. So they're going to try it again Shoot.
Speaker 2:I'm going to call them up and see if they need an airplane to get it.
Speaker 5:But it's still around. Well, burton Gilliam, thank you so much for your time. It has been an absolute honor to have you on the show. All right, I know all flesh cast fans are gonna love listening to this interview, hearing your stories and just know that you are such an iconic part of our favorite movie, our favorite scene. So thank you for everything you did. Thank you For Fletch Amazing and now for this podcast.
Speaker 1:Listen, if something happens and this makes $8 million what we're doing right here now, you got, you got to take me to Burger King, okay, I will pursue Walker's on us yeah. Okay, listen, you guys have a great day and I'll see you at Chiller. You got it, okay, please look me up when we're there.
Speaker 5:Thanks so much, Burton.
Speaker 1:Okay, bye, you guys, bye-bye.
Speaker 5:So that about wraps up this episode of Fletchcast. I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did. I can't thank Burton Gilliam enough for his time. I could have spoke to him all day about Fletch and his career. The man is just incredible. If you like this episode and episodes like this from Fletchcast, please do us a favor. Wherever you listen to this podcast, please give us a rating. Thank you. Seven Days of Underhill. That's right. You're going to get a new episode every day for seven straight days dedicated entirely to Ted motherfucking Underhill. I don't know how we're going to do it. We're going to charge the whole thing to his American Express card, obviously, but it's going to be a huge undertaking. But we will bring it to you. You are going to love what we have in store. I implore everybody to please check your bypass lines For Jake, for Bob I'm Laker Jim Bert and Gilliam, you are the man. Let's all go catch the last 10 minutes of Dynasty.
Speaker 6:Later, guys See you, guys See ya.
