Interview with Tim Matheson (Fletch)

Episode 12:  We kick off Season 2 with Actor/Director/Legend Tim Matheson.

In the wide ranging interview, Tim Matheson talks about his work as Fletch’s arch nemesis, Alan Stanwyk.  From being cast to the production and it’s lasting impact, Matheson reveals insight that hasn’t been revealed previously.  As a acting veteran, Matheson also talks about his work on the classic Animal House and his time spent with Jim Belushi, and later on with Chris Farley on Black Sheep.  From Johnny Quest to Bonaza and his current Netflix hit Virgin River, Mr. Matheson talks in detail about a career that has spanned decades.  But to us, he will always be known as the guy who’s never heard of Ted Nugent.

0:00 - A Very Special Message From Alan Stanwyk
0:14 - Intro
0:57 - Episode 12 Begins
2:40 - A HUGE Jane Doe Report
7:04 - Sitting Down With Stanwyk
10:32 - How Fletch Found Their Heel
12:42 - Tim Puts on The Stanwyk Suit
15:14 - Locations Locations Locations
18:51 - Stanwyk and the Chief
20:20 - Lost History
21:22 - Animal House/Fletch Lore
27:07 - Directing Directors
30:55 - Tim’s Take on Fletch’s Durability
34:32 - Thoughts on Confess, Fletch
36:15 - Stunt Actin’
37:52 - Chevy Alternatives (Ziggy Stardust?)
42:13 - Big Personalities, Tim vs Chevy
44:28 - Tim Works Well With EVERYONE
45:49 - A Mystery Unearthed
46:43 - 👍🏼 😂
46:57 - Working With The Mrs.
48:09 - Kind Words for Another Comedy Legend (with a heart of gold)
51:51 - Tim Remembers a ‘Blues’ Legend
55:38 - Tim & Jake Remember When the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor
1:00:05 - Tim Talks Competition
1:06:00 - “These Executives (Work) Hard”
1:10:11 - “A Year (and movie) That Will Live In Infamy…”
1:14:32 - Fletch’s Influence on Tim’s Life
1:15:02 - Choosing The Right Parts
1:19:29 - Viiiiiiiirgin Riverrrrr
1:22:37 - The Secret To Tim’s Success
1:24:15 - Parting Thoughts From An Absolute Gentleman Legend
1:25:05 - Parting Thoughts From A Dope Who Missed A Once In A Lifetime Interview
1:27:37 - Captain Braddock Brings Us Home

Visit Tim Matheson on the web:
http://www.tim-matheson.com
Instagram - @timlmatt
Twitter - @tim_m

FletchCast is Your Ultimate source for everything Fletch: the books, the movies, & the latest news about our favorite journalistic reporter, Irwin M. Fletcher.

... making sure Fletch Lives forever!

Host: James "Laker Jim" Kanowitz (@webguy911)
Co-Host: Jake Parrish (@jakelparrish)
Co-Host: Robert "Big Bob" West


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P.S. Have a nice day.

Fletch & Fletch Lives are Copyright 1985, 1989 Universal Studios and distributed by MCA/Universal Pictures. The Fletch Soundtrack is Copyright MCA Records. Confess, Fletch is Copyright of Miramax with Paramount distribution. All images and sounds are the intellectual property of Universal Studios. They are used only with the intent of public appreciation of a great film and possible publicity for its place among the great comedies of our time. We imply no rights to the characters or intellectual property created by Gregory McDonald, Universal or Miramax and is used for educational purposes only.

Transcript

Tim Matheson 0:00

This is Alan Stanwick, and I have a little proposition for you. I'll give you $1,000 just to listen to Laker Gym's Fletchcast. I'd suggest bringing your rubber gloves.

FletchCast Intro 0:15

Broadcasting live and around the world. Around the world from Cabana One, the only podcast that's all ball bearings. Your ultimate source for everything flat. Thank you. Forever. Forever. They don't shower much. This is Fletchcast.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 0:57

Thank you, Sammy, and welcome to season two of Fletchcast. Welcome back, Fletch Fans. I'm your host, Laker Jim. And joining me, two men who never like to discuss business on the Lanai, Pink and Big Bob. Boys, how was your break?

Jake Parrish 1:12

It was great. It was great. I uh finished my refresher course and I am ready to go.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:18

Now many of you uh don't know that Bob was darn near death recently, and uh he wasn't afraid to admit to me that he had COVID and where he got it.

Jake Parrish 1:29

Tribling Hills, though, I think was a big benefit for him, though. I think it really paid off, right? Well, thank God he stopped in his tracks.

"Big Bob" West 1:35

Yeah, the the the end was almost very sudden. He had COVID for three weeks. The very end. Like the very end. I think the very almost almost very sudden. Almost very sudden. You weren't in intensive care for eight weeks, right? No, no, they didn't have any beds. Did you name drop the podcast? Uh I said, do you know who I am? I'm Pete Bob from You know, they they didn't seem to care or know what I was talking about. They released the dogs to chase you into the parking lot.

Fletch Movie Quote 2:04

Come on, smile, say flash.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 2:07

But regardless, I'm I'm extremely down because I I know while I was away I did miss probably the biggest episode to date. That's right. We decided to start off season two with a bang. Now, while Bob was dealing with the mutation of syphilis and COVID, Jake and I sat down with the man himself, Alan Stanwyck, and we asked him straight to his face, are you involved with any improprieties?

Fletch Movie Quote 2:30

Alan Stanwick is not involved in any improprieties.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 2:34

Now, before we get into that, we actually have some news. So why don't we start with some breaking news? Jake, this is big stuff. Sounds great.

FletchCast Intro 2:45

The Dingo Report.

Fletch Movie Quote 2:49

I'm turning the story over to a professional reporter.

Jake Parrish 3:02

So Greg Matola was on Twitter last week and uh someone had reached out to him and asked about a possible trailer for Confessed Fletch. That is still in limbo as we wait to see who picks up the distributing rights. He actually mentioned to us uh via messaging that next week, so the third week of January, Confess Fletch will be viewed by the distributors. And then hopefully after that, we'll have a better idea of when we possibly will see a trailer and then the inevitable release. But during that conversation, he actually mentioned that he was in negotiations to direct already a follow-up to Fletch's fortune. Wow. Which I think would be, and I've said it in the past, a perfect sequel to Confess Fletch. And I'm very excited about that. That obviously means that what they're seeing from Confess Fletch is good.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 4:02

Now, is Fletch's fortune, is the fortune itself the Stanwick fortune?

Jake Parrish 4:08

No, no, no, it is not. In fact, the book itself is really great. It takes place at a journalism convention in Virginia, and it's very, very funny, and I really think it um it would translate very well onto the big screen. It was technically the third book that Gregory McDonald wrote. He wrote Fletch, he wrote Confess Fletch, and then Fletch's Fortune. Um, Fletch's Fortune takes place right after Confess Fletch, so it is the sequel in book form as well. And like I said, is just the logical follow-up.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 4:49

Great, because then including the original 1985 Fletch, we really then have the first three books in the story.

Jake Parrish 4:56

As far as they're written, not in timeline as we know, but yes, as far as in writing order, yeah. Fletch was 74, Confess Fletch was 76, Fletch's Fortune was 78.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 5:07

Nice, that's exciting. That's really exciting. Yeah. Jake, does Fletch's Fortune follow the same storyline the way that the other books do? You know, traditional mystery has to be solved by Fletch goes undercover.

Jake Parrish 5:20

Um, he doesn't go undercover in Fletch's Fortune. He is at a, I mean, you can read it in the synopsis. He attends pretty much as blackmailed to attend a journalism convention in Virginia by the CIA. The CIA would like to have information to possibly future blackmail journalists. So they can they blackmail Fletch that because they know that he has picked up a lot of money, the money from Alan Stanwyck that he got in the original movie, but he's never paid taxes on it. So they basically blackmail him to go to this convention in in Virginia and to set up all these bugging devices so that all the journalists in each room can be recorded. There's a murder while he's there, and it's it's really funny, it's really well done. It's one of my favorite Fletch books after the original.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 6:16

All right, well, listen, that's great. That's great news that Fletch is moving forward.

Jake Parrish 6:20

I'm very encouraged. And as I said, the fact that he's already negotiating for another one means that it must have turned out really well, and we knew it would, just with the caliber of talent behind the project itself.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 6:34

And we've also reconfirmed that Greg Matola will be a guest on the show in the future. Yes. We reconfirmed. Yes.

Fletch Movie Quote 6:43

We reconfirmed this morning.

Jake Parrish 6:44

As they get closer to release date, he said yes in all capitals. Yes. So you know it's legit. If he wrote back in all caps.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 6:52

This is breaking news for me. I didn't know this. You guys didn't tell me this. Well, Bob, we only wake you up for the important news. I appreciate that. But that's huge. I didn't know that. I'm excited to hear that. Yeah, we have a million questions for Greg Mittole. But you know what? That's the perfect segue to what you've all been waiting for. Sitting down with Stanwick up next. You're at those of you who follow Utah Indie Rock, that's the Van Laser Fan. It's called Alan Stanwick. And if that's not segue enough, let me finally introduce our first guest. Our first cast member to be on the Fletchcast. Stanwick himself, Mr. Tim Matheson.

Jake Parrish 8:07

Yes!

Tim Matheson 8:08

Howdy, howdy. Nice to see you. Like we're gym and chase. How are you guys? Very good. Very good, very good. Good.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 8:15

Now, the irony of you being our first guest is deeper than just you being one of our favorite characters. Twenty-three years ago, I wrote you a letter. And in that letter, I mentioned that I had a Fletch website and I wanted to interview you for the website. Now, my version of interviewing you was sending you questions. Well, believe it or not, you wrote me back.

Fletch Movie Quote 8:40

Oh my god.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 8:43

And you answered every one of my questions in your own handwriting. And here's the letter right here. I still have it saved. Oh my god. It meant so much to me. That yes, granted, you tried to kill our hero, burn up his body, and steal his identity. But at the core, I knew you must be a really great guy. Thank you. Is that something you do regularly when fans write you? Because that could go either way, honestly, when somebody sends a letter to your house.

Tim Matheson 9:10

I tried to.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 9:11

I absolutely try to.

Tim Matheson 9:13

You know, um, I had worked with some country Western stars, you know, like Reuben McIntyre and a few other guys, and and um Hoyt Axton, and and they all, you know, they'll do a two or three hour show and then spend two or three more hours greeting and taking pictures and signing autographs um after the show. And many actors do that on Broadway, or they come out of the theater, they'll spend another hour out there signing autographs to say kind of people and wow, who are you know. So I I just think it's um yeah, I mean, I do because also it's the only feedback you get from film, you know. I mean, you do a movie and it's out there, but in theater you get instant feedback. Well, that's stunk, you know, or or you get a laugh or whatever. But in film you don't, and you don't know how it sort of resonates for the audience until you talk to people.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 10:03

That's correct. Now we're talking in the late 90s, so social media didn't exist. It took a lot more effort to respond to fans back then. And I just wanted to tell you it it meant a lot to me then, it's still right now. Thank you, thank you. So, why don't we start from the beginning? Not not so much the beginning of your career, but the beginning of Fletch. Okay, how did the role come about? How did the audition process come about? How'd you hear about it?

Tim Matheson 10:31

I was just offered the part, and I knew Michael Ritchie, the director, who um I had almost worked with, I had I gotten to know early on, um and you know, um, who was just the tallest, brightest, most articulate director I'd ever worked with. He was and knew where the comedy was. I mean, he was just he was brilliant. Um, so but I was doing a play in New York, um, True West, uh Sam Shepherd play with uh Daniel Stern. And so it looked like it wasn't gonna happen. I mean, you know, so I got this offer and and and I was looking to do something different and interesting in my career, you know, always. So um the guy said, okay, we'll work it out, we'll work it out. You'll you'll fly out, we'll fly you out private after a um your Sunday night show, like nine o'clock, get you on a plane, you'll work the next day, Monday, and then fly back to New York either Monday night or Tuesday morning. I forget which it was, and um, and go to work Tuesday night, which was when my play was back on. So um I I did that. I remember we had to stop like in Kansas City to get more fuel because it was a smaller jet, and I got like two hours sleep, and then we went right down to the the the pier, Santa Monica Pier, and underneath there, and you know, and so um but I loved working with Chevy. I mean, he was uh he you know, he was a huge star at that point, and he has ups and downs, but that was I think of his two greatest roles, Clark Griswold and Fletch, were the the two that he was he just nailed it, you know, he just was uh as good as you can get.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 12:21

No, there was nobody more perfect than Chevy because only he could deliver the dialogue that you wish you said in the situation, but you actually only repeat back to yourself in the car ride home after the fact.

Jake Parrish 12:40

What an idiot I was yeah. So were you uh were you familiar with the character at all of Fletch when the script you know headed was in your direction?

Tim Matheson 12:49

No, I you know it was because at the time the book was you know, I was doing my play and you know other things, I was getting into directing a little bit, and so I was fully occupied. I didn't get a chance, I wasn't real, I was like uh ignorant of of the you know the fletch history and and how successful it was, and um, but the script was great, you know, the script just was great, and um you know, and working with Chevy because the interesting thing about Chevy was he didn't really consider himself an actor, you know, so he um he wanted to engage on some real visceral level with whoever he was playing a scene with, and I guess he and Michael Ritchie had developed a uh because Chevy had done a couple of, I think under the rainbow, done a couple of movies where he had total control and everything, you know. And this was this was one where I think Michael said to him, No, we're gonna do this my way. You I'll give you a take, but first we're gonna do it my way, and then I'll give you a free-for-all. You can do whatever you want. So uh he when he we got to his close-ups, he said, just say something in anything to me, just throw me, just throw crap at me, anything you can think of. What are you doped up now?

Fletch Movie Quote 14:05

Don't talk to me like that, assface. I don't work for you yet.

Tim Matheson 14:08

Off camera, when I was off camera, we play the master scene, we maybe do my coverage, whatever, right? And then we do Chevy's, and and I would just say the most vile, horrible, I won't repeat any of things, you know, just try and break him up or crack him up or or you know, a dig or whatever, you know. Yeah, and um call him Dan Ackeroyd or something. I don't know. And uh, but just anything to try and elicit a real response, right? And I'm sure and I I think a lot of that or some of that is in there, you know. He would just whoa, you know, he he would just react to it, but um it was pretty much a whirlwind that day. I think uh I remember the scenes under the pier because that's such a striking location.

Fletch Movie Quote 14:49

Excuse me, yeah. I have something I'd like to discuss with you. What's that? We can't talk about it here. Why not? Because we can. Are you on a scavenger hunt or uh just forget to pay my dinner check? I mean, I'd be happy to pay it. I want you to come to my house and then we'll talk. You got the wrong diaphragm.

Tim Matheson 15:08

I know I think there were other scenes that were shot, uh, you know, and but it was very sporadic for me to to do that. I mean, so I went back to New York, and then I don't think I came back out again until we went to the hurt the former Hearst Mansion, um, where we shot, you know, in in that uh incredible entryway in the in the library.

Fletch Movie Quote 15:31

What a coincidence! What I came this close to buying this place, and I found out Hoplong Cassidy killed himself here, blew it for me. Who hopalon Cassidy?

Tim Matheson 15:42

Bow and arrow, very weird. Um, the house that Hearst bought for Marion Davies, and you know, and it's an ex and it's the godfather house, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's just it's an amazing piece of property.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 15:56

Yeah, that's one thing we were gonna ask you. We weren't sure if just the exterior was the house or the interior was as well. It was all there, all there.

Tim Matheson 16:03

That that library, I mean, you just oh my god, people live like this, you know. I mean, it it was um not quite, it was on a par with Hearst Castle, but not, you know, it wasn't as grand and and you know, but it was a it was incredibly beautiful.

Jake Parrish 16:20

So I uh from what you're saying, is you shot the one scene under the pier just in one day and then went back and then came back to shoot the rest of the film, or did you go back and forth more than you know twice?

Tim Matheson 16:30

I don't recall going back and forth again. I think that oh, it was I mean, I was towards the end of the run, maybe the uh the play, and uh you know, three or four weeks, and and I didn't have to work and on and fletch when I came, then I came back out for Fletch and I finished. I mean, I remember finishing because we had a scene with Joe John Baker, we were down in Long Beach or something, and the the first stuff we did was at was at the the Davies house in Marion Davies house when I first came out. We did that, and I did the but I I didn't really have that much to do, and and many of my scenes took place at the uh the mansion, so we shot that maybe in a day or two, and I I can't remember working more than four or five days on the movie, and um but one of the quirks was uh we I finished the picture, finished uh whatever we had finished shooting, and then I took off, uh took my mother and my sister to Hawaii for a little vacation. And um my agent called me and said, Hey, they need you back on flesh, they're gonna reshoot this. Uh it was something at the Marion Davies house, which was it was an extraordinary expense because it cost then fifteen thousand dollars a day, which was unheard of. So today it'll be a hundred thousand dollars to the location. Um, and I said, Well, geez, I just you know, now this can be told. I just got here with my mother and my sister. I can't leave. And he goes, and I said, What do I do? And he goes, Don't worry, I'll handle it. And I said, Oh, okay. And I said, He says, When are you gonna be back? And I said, Well, I'll be back on next Sunday. He goes, Okay, all right, uh, prepare to work the following week. And and John Gaines was my agent at uh agency for the performing artists and arts, and he was just a real character. And he said, I told him I couldn't get in touch with you. Oh, yeah, he's out of touch, he's on the you know the islands, they they don't have phones, it's whatever. He can work these dates though, and they said, Okay, that's fine. And and it worked out. Um, and we went back to the Davies house and shot uh, I'm not sure, pickups or alternate scenes, or I'm not sure exactly what we shot, but we did redo some stuff.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 18:39

It's funny with today. You can't use that excuse anymore that we can't get in touch with you. There's a million ways that's right, it blew my cover, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Hey, do you remember what you shot with Jodon Baker? Because I had emailed you a photo that we had found. It looks like you and him on top of a building or something, something like that. Or a bridge or something like that. But do you remember what that might have been? It might there was a parking structure or or it was a bridge, I think.

Tim Matheson 19:05

And and that it was, I don't know if it was Long Beach. I was I don't honestly remember where that was, but it god, it was such a treat to work with him. I mean, he was just couldn't have been funnier and nicer, and you know, what a what a good actor. Put the gun down, Alan. I can take care of them. Um yeah, but I honestly it it it because it did the stuff we shot by the beach um was not at an elevation like this. This might have been somewhere downtown Los Angeles, perhaps. I honestly it was such a whirlwind. I I don't really remember what what was going on, you know, in these specific scenes.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 19:53

And Fletch is one of those movies that the the the lost footage is just gone. Yeah, I mean they they shot stuff with yeah, they shot uh you know a whole sequence with Tommy La Sorda and Fletch and Chevy and Chevy in uh in a hockey uniform walking down downtown LA.

Jake Parrish 20:13

Yeah, is just gone. We've had stills and those.

Tim Matheson 20:15

Oh my god. You know what happened is I went over to Universal to to do some research on Animal House, and um I I wanted to get the production notes, you know, the backstage stuff with the prop notes and wardrobe and all that stuff, and the and the budgetary notes, usually, which they you know it's it their in-depth sort of looks into what what happened in the picture to go over and what how long to shoot this day and that it's all gone. They told me, I guess, when GE had owned the studio for a short period of time, they just swept it clean. You know, they just said, Ah, it's all fire hazard, let's get rid of that stuff. And it then I don't think they photocopied anything, so all of that stuff was lost. And then there was a fire on the back lot at Universal where they lost a lot of negatives and they lost a lot of recordings and and a lot of uh I guess outtakes and things like that, you know. So it's it's a shame, it's really a shame because Chevy's offstage stuff was brilliant.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 21:19

I can imagine. You brought up Animal House, right? So that's a good segue to a question that we have for you. Sure. Okay. Steven First, okay, he played Ken Dorfman. Yes.

Tim Matheson 21:31

Okay, this guy is a real zero, that's true.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 21:34

His brother in the movie was Fred Dorfman. Better his brother was a 59, Fred Dorfman. Can you confirm that he is indeed the brother of Fred the Dorf Dorfman from Fletch?

Fletch Movie Quote 21:46

It's been a wonderful ceremony so far. Here on behalf of our own Fred the Dorf Dorfman.

Tim Matheson 21:53

You know, I'm sure, I'm sure that there's it's sprinkled with uh and he was a legacy, too.

Jake Parrish 22:00

He was a lady.

Tim Matheson 22:02

So I'm sure, you know, there are all those kinds of references. And, you know, and that that could be more Michael Ritchie than Chevy. Because I don't think Chevy, you know, Chevy still had hard feelings. I don't think he had hard feelings about Animal House, but he he didn't, he never really acknowledged it. I guess he and you know Belushi were yeah on the outside. I'm not sure. But um but there's a famous story you probably heard where that the studio wanted Chevy to play Otter in uh Animal House. Curiously, she said we had roughly the same build from the waist up, I imagine. Landis didn't want him. Landis wanted to surround Belushi with real actors and keep him focused on the scene so that it didn't turn into sketch stuff. And he thought having Chevy there would just be, you know, would just be not good. And so that Landis took him to lunch with some of the other producers, I think the studio had and said, Hey, you know what, Chevy, you're gonna this would be great for your career. You'd be one of about eight guys in this movie. You don't have to work that hard. You know, there's a lot of people who have others, you know, so you're just you're gonna be part of the group, you know. It's a good part, but it's part of the group. What do you you don't want otherwise? You do like this movie with Goldie Hahn, and and it's uh you know, it's you and her, and you know, you're the star and she's the star. It's a romantic comedy. You don't want to do that, you want to be in our gang comedy, you know, and Chevy's gonna like me with Goldie Hahn. So Landis juked him, you know, out and and and uh um tricked him into turning it down. Although I, you know, that's the way Landis tells it, so I'm not so sure uh exactly what happened.

Jake Parrish 23:39

A little reverse psychology.

Tim Matheson 23:40

Ivan Rightman kicked at me, he said, Shut up because everybody else just wanted to get the movie made, and they didn't think they, you know, they they weren't gonna be moving ahead without somebody like Chevy. That's why Sutherland was in it, because they needed a name. He said, Get us a name, give somebody that somebody will know. And so that's when they got Donald Sutherland. That's when uh John Landis called him up because he was uh an acquaintance of his.

Jake Parrish 24:06

He said, Do me a favor. There was no bad blood though. There wasn't Shelly Chevy wasn't jealous of you though when you uh when you came back on set taking you know his role.

Tim Matheson 24:15

Oh no, no, no. He was he was a star, you know, and and uh I'm in his movie, so you know he uh he was on a different level than me. And and the the only thing about Chevy that I remember specifically was he just didn't feel like an actor, you know, he wasn't he didn't think of himself as an actor, so he was trying, you know, and he it was you know, he was battling his his demons, as it were, you know, uh with the drugs and things, but um he was, I think, totally clean and and uh you know proper during shooting a fledge, and uh you know, and and because Michael Richie, he doesn't put up with any crap. And because Michael Richie would do this great thing. I remember the first scene where we would come into the library and Richie would say, Okay, because the shot for you guys, as you come in and then you walk over here. I think we walked off camera, and he said, Um, now Tim, okay, cut print. That's great. Now we're gonna do Tim's close-up at the door at the end of the scene, or maybe from another scene at another point. And he just he was shooting, picking off little pieces of the scene all over the place. So I think he did it partly, it certainly saves time, and that's the smart director. But I think it also you should you've already shot the beginning and the end of the scene, and now you can't change it. I think he did that for like so Chevy was tied into doing what he wanted and what was in the script, and you know, um it was, and if not, it was it it it worked that way anyhow. But uh, knowing Michael Ritchie, who was always the smartest guy in the room, um, it he probably didn't know.

Jake Parrish 26:05

How did uh how did Alan Stanwyck not know who Ted Nugent was? He said, Where did you get my suit, Mr. Nugent?

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 26:14

And Alan Stanwyck was not someone that left a great deal of the chance, as we know.

Tim Matheson 26:18

Well, you know, Alan wasn't it wasn't the hippies guy in there, you know.

Jake Parrish 26:21

So uh Google didn't exist, right? That was my rationale. I know I knew Gregory McDonald very well, the author of all the flesh novels. Did you did you happen to run into him while you were on set? I was just wondering. I know he had visited the set when Chevy was there, but I don't know if you hadn't run into him as well. I don't recall meeting him.

Tim Matheson 26:40

Yeah, I I honestly don't recall meeting him. I'm sure I would have if I had been there, you know. Again, I was just sort of I dropped in maybe four or five times, and and that was my part. I don't know that I worked with Dana Wheeler Nicholson anywhere else except for the house. I mean, I think that was a bulk of our stuff. It was all like wham bam thanking.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 27:03

You know, it was just like it was now you've become quite a seasoned director yourself. Is there anything that you you could pinpoint from your own directing style that you maybe took from Michael Ritchie or oh, I steal from the best.

Tim Matheson 27:17

I mean, uh, you know, that's one of the great things about being an actor. You work with uh maybe hundreds of directors, or you know, I was always interested in directing, and um, I'll never forget the advice um one director gave me. He and he was he was a TV guy. He was what he was one of those journeyman TV guys he directed. This week he's doing you know um Marcus Welby, and next week he's doing uh you know that some other universal show. And and um he said, I said, Do you have any advice for a young director or something wants to? You know, he says, Yep, sit down every chance you get. Uh um, never run, never, you know, never run, always just walk because you'll just wear yourself out and fire somebody the first day. Okay, this is a cutthroat thing, but you know, I think basically what he was saying, and I've heard other directors say it sometimes they'll do to get the attention of the crew, the first setup, the first scene they'll do is the most intricate, the most demanding, the most complex camera move, and this and that, and just so everybody is like holy crap, this guy's out of his mind, or she's out of her mind. This is this is the whole picture's gonna be like this will be a mess, you know, because it was so demanding. Um, so there's a lot of directors, everybody's got their little tricks uh and things like that. Um, I think for Michael, Richie, I just prep, prep, prep. I mean, because I'm not as smart as Michael was, so I I had to work harder. So, what it inspired me to do was to spend days of arduous drawings of the scene and how I want to block it, and just when I first started directing, so that I I would not be on the spot, you know, and I think staging is the most important thing about directing, where the actors are in juxtaposition to each other to easily tell the story. And nobody's better at that than Steven Spielberg. And um, so you know, I study Steven's movies uh always, and I could speak to actors too, you know, and and and so the that that those were my gifts about about her hard work and and knowing knowing that I'm just like the coach on the sidelines, and you're you guys are the stars and the football players, you're the you're out there mixing it up. I'm just here giving you you know little advice, like if you well, if you go a little longer here and then button hook, you're you'll be wide open. So that's what a director really does, I think, is just sort of give advice. And I'm always uh a couple of times shocked when the when the actors go, you know, yeah, okay, man, man. Don't get in, you know. It's like, okay, fine. Just here for you, pal. I mean, it's whatever you want. Kind of sets the tone. Yeah, and you know, and Michael Richie, he that thing he did with Chevy, which is okay, Chevy, okay. Yeah, I know, because Chevy would come in, oh hey, what if we do this? What if we do you know, before we even start shooting? And Michael would say, Okay, so that's all good. First, let's just do it like this. It's written like this, say that line, do that, just do this, and then we'll then we'll freewheel it. But we will get it this way, you know. And and I guess they I don't know if they came to loggerheads about it or whatever happened, but by the time I got there, which may have been the second week of the production or third, I'm not sure, it was resolved that this is the way it's gonna be. Michael won that battle, and that's why the movie's so good.

Jake Parrish 30:55

It's do you find it surprising with the short amount of work that you did on it, that it's still remembered, you know, as fondly as it is today?

Tim Matheson 31:03

Oh, it's just it's impressive, and it's a testament to both Michael Ritchie and Chevy Chase and um what a wonderful script it was, you know. Um, but you never know. You never know when you're doing a movie. I mean, I didn't even go to the premiere. I remember I was out of town or something, and I was like, it's okay. You know, that it'll come, it'll go, you know. It's like, I hope it works, but geez, who knows? And um, but you while you're shooting, you never know, you know. I mean, uh I can't tell you how many movies I worked on that this is the one, you know, it's like like 1941. Yeah, you know.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 31:40

No, maybe not. Yeah, and I think even this podcast is a testament to how great Fletch is because what even when I put Bob and Jake together and gave them my Lombardy rah-rah speech of what we're gonna do and how we're gonna do it, deep down in my soul, I thought there was a very good possibility we were gonna be broadcasting to our parents, friends, and a few Fletch fans. But as we put out these episodes and thousands of people download them, it's it's crazy, and it's attribute to the longevity that 37 years later there's still interest in these movies and these characters, and the phenomenon of Fletch is still alive, and you're a huge, huge part of what made Fletch so great. Well, that's very nice of you. Thank you very much. Thank you. When you talk about comedy history, Fletch certainly has a place.

Tim Matheson 32:38

Oh, absolutely, you know, and um Michael Ritchie was the kind of guy that I I believe it was, it might have been before Fletch. I had been doing a picture in Philadelphia and a movie that was never released called House of God. And um it was the director had a midlife crisis in the middle of it, and it was a mess, you know. And so um anyway, I got back and I had a script from Buck Henry. It was a Buck Henry script about the White House, and it was I forget the name of it, but it was like Buck Henry, I mean, really. But I read it and it was just a series of my character wasn't that important to it, and you know, and and I sort of said, No, I don't think it's for me. I think well, let's try and find a leading role or something on that. And when I got back to LA, they said, Oh, Michael Rossi wants to have lunch with you and talk to you about this movie. So, okay. So I met him at the Bel Air Hotel because he lived right up the block from there. And um he he was so interesting away. He talked to me, he says, You read, you gotta do, you should do this movie. I'm I'm telling you, really, really, really should do this movie. And I went, Yeah, okay, Michael, but uh, you know, it's this part and that part. He says, I understand, I understand, but just just say you'll do the movie, and and and it's all gonna be okay. And I said, Well, I you know, I I gotta really have a passion for it because just just you should say you want to do this movie. And I said, I finally turned it down, you know, at my through my agent. And then what happened was fade out, fade in the movie never got made. And I happened to I at one point lived next door to Michael. I bought a house up the block from him in Bel Air on Stone Canyon Road, and I said, and he said, You know why I wanted you to do that? Because I knew it wasn't ever going to get made and you'd get paid. And I said, Jesus, why did you tell me that? He said, No, that wouldn't have been right. So that was that was that was Michael Ritchie.

Jake Parrish 34:33

So um, we're hoping this year that the next Fletch movie will be released. You know, uh, it's you know, production is done, and I think it's pretty much locked uh with Greg Matola and John Ham as the new Fletch. I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.

Tim Matheson 34:49

Oh, well, I love John Hamm. And and you know, he's such a smart actor. Um, and he he's such a good actor. My gut on on him is he he's not gonna be doing Shadow Chase's fledge, he's gonna be doing John Ham's fledge, and I think that's why it's such a perfect casting choice, you know. Um, but I just I love his work. I mean Baby Driver and just the character stuff that he's done, sort of just to test his metal as a character actor. Um, and he's so funny in everything he does. I mean, he can be really funny or really straight or whatever. And um, so I I think I applaud that. I can't wait to see that. Yeah, who's playing Stanwell? I mean, where are they?

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 35:40

No, what they're doing is they're doing the next book, Confess Fletch. Oh, okay. So they're they're yeah, so it's not a remake, so so to speak, but just rebooting the series. Oh, that's funny. And they're gonna they're they're gonna kind of play it closer to the book. The next book in the series of like it would take place after Fletch.

Jake Parrish 35:56

Okay, because I've loved the books and I've read them a million times. There are some other references to Stanwick and some of the other books, uh, posthumous, of course, but yeah. He's not dead, he's not dead.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 36:11

Did you do your own stunt there when you got shot? Do you remember, or did you have a stunt man?

Tim Matheson 36:15

It looks like you. I think it is me. I mean, I I always, you know, something like a bullet hit, you know, it's one of those things.

Jake Parrish 36:22

Um I mean, you must have been wearing the explosive thing on your chest, and you yeah, you had the Lakers jersey on.

Tim Matheson 36:28

A squib, they put they put protection, you know, between you and the squib, but the squib blows out, one one hopes. And so, but they put something there just to protect you in case it there's a mistake or an accident. And um was there something that jerked you backwards? I think I did that. I think it was because you know, I had grown up doing westerns and cowboy stuff on Bonanza and the Virginian and the Quest, and um, and I fashioned myself a kind of stunt actor that I could do this stuff. So, as I do recall, you know, I mean the stunt coordinator was there, and then they they really tell you how to do it, you know. And then they're there between takes saying, Okay, if you do this, this, this, it'll look better. I go, okay, great, you know. Right. So and they might have in one scene, they might, if they could, depending on the angle, they might have pulled it. You could put a jerk line on you, you know, which kind of only pulls you back. So yeah, you're hard to go forward, sort of, when you get shot. Probably, I think it probably was a jerk line, as I recall. Um, and uh and I yeah, and it and and they do those guys are so good, and and you know, the stunt performers in Hollywood are so good that they'll take care of you, you know, make sure you don't get hurt. I was probably padded up, knees and elbows. I just you know, they they just make sure, and you know, they make sure that you're not gonna they don't want to hurt an actor.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 37:51

Well, speaking of other people playing Fletch, today is actually David Bowie's birthday. Uh and David Bowie was almost on the beach with you opposite Alan Stanwick, yeah. So he was up for the role long before Chevy. Oh my god, would that have been a what would it have been like?

Fletch Movie Quote 38:14

I didn't want to do this, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to pull rank on you. I'm with the mattress police. There are no tags on these mattresses. I'm gonna have to take you downtown. Now give me the weapon.

Jake Parrish 38:32

Laker Jim, Laker Gym. You there, buddy? You there, Laker Jim, Laker Jim, Laker Jim. Are you there? Laker Jim. Hello, yeah.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 38:38

Sorry. Um, yeah, I'm I was listening.

Tim Matheson 38:40

Wow. Wow. I mean, I just think of Fletch being so iconically American. Uh, you know, I don't know. I mean, would he have played with an American accent? Would I mean because then David Boy wasn't really per se an actor, you know, he was he was a magical performer, but I I never thought of and I've seen a lot of movies that he was in, but he really didn't, he wasn't a character actor. He, you know, so he's not like like Cumberbatch or or uh you know the other Brits that could just, you know, Olivia Coleman can play anything. You know, I mean they're really and the the British actors are really good at doing American accents and here and there, you know. I mean, um uh like in West Side's story, the uh the the guy plays Tony, yeah, I think he's British. You know, I mean so it's like they're really good at doing this stuff. So it's like, okay, I mean, but I I don't know about David Bowie, that would have been just wild.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 39:40

I think of all the actors in the last 20 years prior to John Hamm that have been up for the role, and there have been many good ones, Jason Lee, Jason Stakis, a lot of good ones I think could have pulled off a very good fletch. I think the one that could have been the closest to the Chevy version would have been Ryan Reynolds. And he was offered the part, and I think he wisely turned it down because he just he knew it was a no-win situation.

Tim Matheson 40:03

And you've worked with him, right? Oh, yeah, I worked with Ryan, and um I really you know I admire him, and he's a he asked me a lot about Fletch and Animal House, and he's a real student of comedy. Um asked me about working with Chris Farley and you know, about Belushi and about all those things. Um so it's no surprise to me that he is uh huge star, and there are very few performers that can go big. Because what happens is if if you're not really good, it looks hand bone acting. It's like bad shtick acting, it's just like and you're broadcasting how bad it is. Whereas I think Michael Richie's choice about you know, and what I was gonna say was and and Ryan is one of those guys who can go big and do and do it, you know, and then there's there's Jim Carrey, you know, and there's and Belushi was that way, and and I but Chevy, you know, yeah, he was that way more, I think, in uh Clark Griswold than he was in Fletch. And Fletch, he was he played it like a real character, you know, wasn't sick, it wasn't, you know, uh so so I think it was it's important that any comedy that is done has to be firmly rooted in in reality. So let let me decide to choose what's funny. You don't don't tell me what's funny, you know. And I think sometimes I've seen you know, you see a lot of comic comic movies, and oh, this is a you know, and it's like let me discover that, you know, and it's like Animal House is that way. It's it's shot like a real movie, it's darker than a comedy movie. There was no shtick stuff going on, and you know, it's played very straight. And there are just a few moments where we kind of wink at the audience, but the rest of it, you have you know, you have to earn your right for that laugh. And I I think that Michael Ritchie was uh, you know, instrumental in getting that from Chevy and keeping him real so that he wasn't doing shtick.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 42:08

Maybe that's why Fletch has aged so well over the last almost 40 years.

Jake Parrish 42:12

Yeah. We have played the Siskel and Ebert review of Fletch years and years ago. Oh, yeah. And I remember Siskel playing the scene with you and Chevy and and uh saying, you know, you know, Chevy actually, or the character of Fletch was scared in that. There was definitely some tension in that. I mean, did you feel that? Did you did you enjoy that part of it?

Tim Matheson 42:33

Yeah, I did. I mean, it because because Chevy was he was a real character, and I think Michael Richie helped him with that. And and and Michael was the guy that would point out Chevy, you know, Fletch in this situation is kind of confused and scared, and you know, he would and and he would get that from him. Um, and you know, not to discount anything with Chevy. I mean, he probably was wanted to stretch himself as an actor too, you know, and and to to really go to different places and play different levels of it.

Jake Parrish 43:05

Well, I think you're really good because you can play both sides. I mean, so the Stanwick role was is pretty straight. Yeah, um, and you were okay with that.

Tim Matheson 43:13

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't and and I I wasn't gonna compete with Chevy or there, I mean, you know, he was really the straight man, you know, in in most of those scenes. You have to be the straight man, but I wanted to be true to the character who lived in a house like that, you know, and and and was deviously con you know confounding this this plot, you know, to to hang it all on him. Here's my proposition. I'm all ears. I want you to murder me. It's always more fun to be it's the comic than the straight man. You know, it's always more fun. I mean, and and you look back at all of them, you know, uh with the exception of Laura Allen Hardy, a lot of and Burns and Allen. I mean, Moreland, I mean, uh uh Abbin Costello, I don't think got along, you know, and and with Lewis and Martin and Lewis obviously can get along, you know, and and um it just there's a point you get to where it's like I've had enough of this. I mean, you're not gonna get to laugh unless I help you. So give me a just throw me a friggin' bone here, you know.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 44:24

I mean, you've worked with some of the absolute great physical comedians of all time, Lucille Ball, Chris Farley, Ryan Reynolds, Chevy Chase, John Belushi. I mean, you certainly earned your chops.

Tim Matheson 44:36

Well, thanks. I mean, I I just want to, I'm not one of those people who can go too big. I think, you know, I think, I mean, I've tried it on occasion, and it's like it's like, you know, it's dangerous territory, and it has to be like with say Ace Ventura or something that Jim Carrey does, you know, it has to be based on character. That this is who this guy is. He just, you know, you haven't, I mean, we happen to find it funny, but he's just crazy, or he just sees the world this this way. Um, but uh and Ryan Reynolds has the ability to do that, and and quite a few others. And I'm just that I'm really interested to see what John Ham's gonna do. This, you know, yeah. Um yeah, we are too.

Jake Parrish 45:18

Yeah, we're super excited. You've never worked with no. I haven't. Um, who directed the the new fledge? Greg Matola.

Tim Matheson 45:26

He did super bad and and and he I think he's worked with John Hamm before, has he not? He has, yes. Yeah, so I mean they got the language down, and and I know that part of the way they do is improv stuff and try this line. Go throw, you know, you throw a line off from off stage, and you know, I'm sure that'll be pretty good.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 45:46

Alan Stanwyck had two wives. Yeah, Dana Wheeler Nicholson played one, Gail Stanwick. The other's name was Sally Ann Kavanaugh. Sure. But who was the actress that played Sally Ann Kavanaugh? She's not credited. She appears in a photograph with you several times in the movie. Is that a real photo? Did you guys really take that photograph?

Tim Matheson 46:10

No, I think uh no, we definitely took it, I do believe.

Jake Parrish 46:14

Um it was a picture like at your wedding, at the at the wedding, right?

Tim Matheson 46:19

I mean, you'd have to. I mean, they could have just stuck my head on. You know, get they they got the picture in and then just laid it in there. I'm not sure.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 46:32

I'm not sure if it's shadows, but it's no one you recognize. No one you recognize. That's so weird that she's not credited. I know. I I you know, uh, it's weird. You know what's great about Alan Snawick in both wedding photos, thumbs up, you're doing thumbs up, it's doing the thumbs up in both wedding photos.

Jake Parrish 46:53

Art imitating life, I think, right? Hey, I know you only worked with her a little bit, but how was Dana Wheeler Nicholson in working with her?

Tim Matheson 47:02

She was lovely, she was just lovely, and and I I believe it was one of her earliest roles. I mean, I don't think she had done a lot, and and she was very excited to be, you know, the love interest in this movie, and and uh um, but couldn't have been nicer to work with and couldn't have been uh sweeter.

Fletch Movie Quote 47:22

She looks like a hooker. Look at her, look at her. Could you love someone who looked like that?

Tim Matheson 47:26

What are you talking about? Of course not. Five, ten minutes tops, maybe. And um, and I thought she was very good, and and um I actually was directing um a TV show in Dallas.

Jake Parrish 47:45

She lives here in Austin. I'm in Austin, and I believe she lives here in Austin.

Tim Matheson 47:49

Right, she's down there, and and and maybe she came up for the audition or whatever it was, and uh, you know, we just caught up on on what she you know her life was down there. Um and and but what a what a lovely woman, lovely, lovely woman.

Jake Parrish 48:05

I gotta ask how it was working with Farley.

Tim Matheson 48:10

Well, Chris Farley was so generous and so kind to me. Um, he revered Animal House, he revered Belushi, and just I remember I came into audition and I don't recall whether he was there or he came in, he just but he came in just to say, I love you, I think you're so great. I you know, you're just and um and I'm auditioning here, you know, so I don't have any part uh yet, you know, and and um but he just made me feel so relaxed and at home that you know when I showed them this this is you know, we can certainly play this, but I think he was there to to show that we could be brothers, you know, and and it worked. And he couldn't have been more gracious and sweet, and uh he was totally straight and clean when we worked together, and uh, but uh what a what a generous man in the scenes he he was constantly, he was in character, but I can remember between takes, we were had we had one scene where there were like 150 extras and background artists, and uh it was a political rally that I was giving outside out, and we're shooting a Calabasas, I think it wasn't between takes you get up and he would entertain them and just do bits for them, you know, strip tease or whatever, you know, he just couldn't help himself. He loved entertaining people and making people laugh, and and to be that generous to background artists who usually are just ignored and just stand around and for hours and you know, out in the hot sun. And uh, and he was he was just lovely. And um, I one of some of my favorite things are we did a bunch of photographs one day to show our history as football players and this and that. Yeah, right. And and um just hanging out with him for that amount of time, he it made me feel like part of the team, you know. It wasn't like, oh I'm Chris Farley and you're some you know guy that's gonna be my brother. He was he he he made us brothers, you know, and allowed that to happen. He was just uh and God, he was funny, he was just so funny.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 50:28

And I think that comes across, I think that comes across on your side, the love you have for him. Good that you that just you feel it, that love that you only have for family, your brother, you know.

Tim Matheson 50:38

Yeah, yeah, he it was such a loss. I mean, he was um he was sober when we shot, as I said, but he smoked more cigarettes and drank more cups of coffee than anyone I've ever seen. And he would drink like an iced coffee. I know this sounds crazy, but before every take, if as I recall it, and I just because every scene, you only do like five, six scenes a day, that's not a big deal. If you drink five cups of coffee, he would drink like down it glug glug before every take of his close-up set, and you know, so he'd drink three or four of them, and uh so you can see that he he had a compulsive personality and smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee, and you know, so when we finished, I think I saw him after that at the premiere or some publicity or something, and he wasn't as sober as he could, you know, he was he was off the wagon. Um, I just thought if he ever goes back off the wagon, this is gonna be dangerous because I could see how addicted he was to caffeine and nicotine, and you know, so it was it was a tragedy and a heartbreak when we lost him uh so young.

Jake Parrish 51:52

Did did Belushi come to mind with uh you know when you when when he passed to when Chris Farley passed it? I mean, did you think of Belushi and the and the similarities maybe?

Tim Matheson 52:03

Yeah, I mean the thing with John was he was a first a TV star, mega star, then he was a movie star, and then he was a record star. So it's like the triple whammy, you know, it's like hitting the jackpot, but you I was just around you the I think rock and roll is a tougher business than the movie business. The movie business, you get up at 4 30 in the morning, five o'clock in the morning, you work all day. You you know, uh lucky if you can grab a nap at lunch, and and then you you know you work 12-hour days, 14-hour days, and then you gotta go home and work on the material you're gonna do the next day, and then try and get through three to five hours sleep, and then get up and do it again, you know. So it's a grind, it can be a grind, and and you really have to be focused and you can't party, you know. Whereas with rock and roll, you do a show from seven to ten at night in front of 15,000, 20,000 people, like the blues brothers would do at the Universal Amphitheater. I don't think it was that big, it was probably 2,500 people there, maybe. But I went and saw him there doing that, and then I saw him afterwards, and I I was as I was approaching him, somebody stopped me, and it was Smokey or whatever I think his name was Smokey, the the bodyguard. Um, or no, it was another bodyguard. There was Smokey was always next to John and to protect him, and and um they the the guy with me looked over at Smokey and Smokey looked at John and John saw me and nodded, yeah. So they let me through, but that's how you had to protect John, you know, because people were always giving him drugs, they were always it was always something, you know. Come on man, I want to you know, and his persona was was a party animal. It was he was Pluto, you know. I mean, yeah, crusher beer can and bug, book, boog, you know, and he and so people believe that, and you know, and he lived it. He lived it. I mean, yeah, you would definitely would party after you did a concert like that because you're so keyed up. Um, and and I think that that triple whammy of those the stardom in all those fields, but especially in in music. I mean, you know, because they had the Rolling Stones come on SNL and they had all these hot bands and big bands, and everybody was doing drugs back then, you know.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 54:28

So it was like you know, and and talk about life imitating art or art imitating life. I mean, that he died at the same age as his idol, John Belushi, totally.

Tim Matheson 54:38

I mean, you know, he was being John Belushi, and and the the weight he had on, and uh uh Belushi was a little bit heavy too, and you know, it's like you can't be too thin, and you those guys, you know, you it's like uh Oliver Hardy, you know, and Roland Hardy. Yeah, fat. He's the fat. It's you're funny if you're fat, you know, and I think there was a little bit of that. And they um, you know, we've seen I worked with Sam Kennison, yeah, and uh um and John Candy, you know, I mean, and no, and there were performers that that's part of their persona, you know, that's who they are, and it's laugh at the fat guy, you know. I mean, it's it's an old trope, but that's the they're you know, they they can, you know, like Mr. Hulo's holiday. I mean, it's they are the ones that can make fun of themselves and allow us to laugh at them.

Jake Parrish 55:33

The tragic clown, yeah, yeah, exactly right. I know we talked a lot about flex, but I gotta ask you about Animal House because I quote it all the time too. And then just talk a little bit about. I mean, my brother, I I texted my brother that we were talking to you, and he immediately texted me back and and uh with a quote, don't kid yourself, Otter, it wasn't that great. But I mean, that's the first thing he said. I mean, it's just a classic. I mean, I'm sure you're just you blo you you consider yourself blessed, you know, being in that. And all these years later, the fact that God, I still watch it all the time, it's it's great.

Tim Matheson 56:07

Yeah, well, thank you. You know, it holds up so well because we played it straight. Uh John Landis is a remarkable director, was certainly then. And um everybody, you know, and again, they surrounded Blue Shoe with real actors. And I can remember the first night John came into town, what happened was they brought all of the deltas up to Eugene first, a week early for rehearsal. We we never really rehearsed, we never, you know, we would just hang out. So, like the first night that we were all there, we're sitting around a big, you know, long table, and and uh in comes Belushi, and I think Judy was with him too, his wife, and and uh he was just one of us. He didn't, you know, he wasn't some big movie TV star coming in, and you know, he he and I think what I'd heard was that he felt he looked around the room, he said, Oh my god, look at these, these guys are real actors. I gotta get my stuff together to do this. I mean, I'm not gonna be able to just you know just waltz through this, and and he was nervous, and um, and for me, he could not have been more generous. I mean, this was my first comedy, they didn't want me for the part. I had to beg and borrow and steal an audition to get in, and then they then they liked it. And but they said, no, no, he's a cowboy or a surfer, he's not he's not preppy, no, no. I don't I'd never done a comedy, so I was just incredibly nervous. And here's John Belushi, who's the hottest guy on TV. You we would walk through the um University of Oregon, and and uh um the students' reaction to him because they everyone loves Saturday Night Live is the second year, I believe. And it was like you just thought, well, they revered him, you know, and they shot lines at him and from his you know, killer bees or whatever. He you know, um, and but he was never intimidating to work with. He, you know, uh when I had a joke, if I had a moment that was supposed to be a joke, and or I tried something, you know, he was he was right there and supportive. And because back then there used to be this sort of New York LA kind of competition. Ah, those Hollywood are pretty, pretty boys, they don't act. You know, in New York, we're real actors, we work on theater, we we pay some dues, we wait tables, you know. You Hollywood people, you know, you you're just shallow, skin-deep people. But there was none of that, none of that from Belushi. And uh, I mean, and much of the cast was from New York. So I think me and Stephen First were the only two from LA. Um, Regert was LA and New York, but um, but there was that that whole week we were together was really very sort of element. Um it was it was an element of us coming together as a group so that when we had scenes together, because we shot much of the fraternity house stuff in the first week. And so, I mean, that's kind of the core heart of the movie, and um um oh Belushi was great though, but he could he'd always stay in character, you know, he'd be in character for those scenes and be funny. And and I do remember watching him shoot the we did the cafeteria seek scene. Oh I I got it, I swear you was one take. He walked down there and started eating all of it, and it was just him, you know. I mean, you know, there's certain props to golf ball, obviously, yeah, and and just squeezing guess what I am now.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 59:51

Oh, it it was so much fun, but again, so real. Tim, you you you mentioned the audition process, and it it's something that we always love to discuss too. We have a couple actor friends of ours that are uh you know character actors, and and they tell us they see the same guys for every audition sitting in the room. Who was your when you when you did have the audition, who was that who were those guys in the room where you're like, oh, this guy's who was competing for your parts pretty much like well, you know, I learned early on.

Tim Matheson 1:00:22

I mean, I'm trying to think, uh, but but I mean, I was a kid actor too. So I and I was uh how I like to describe it was the third kid through the door. I was not I was not the lead guy, I was not the lead guy's pal. I was like the the guy with one or two lines, you know. Um the kid with one or two lines, and um they had I think Dennis the Menace, the series had just come on the air, and this kid Jay North had been all he was always on every audition. So it was me, Jay North, Ricky Kelman. I mean, I forget all these guys, you know, Tony Dow. I don't know.

Jake Parrish 1:00:55

Um Tony Dow, that's great from The Beaver, yeah.

Tim Matheson 1:01:00

And and uh so all of a sudden, you know, Jay North is a huge TV series. He's on the cover TV guide, and this Dennis the men is blah blah, you know, he's a star. And this he was just in two weeks ago, he was in on the auditions with us, you know. And then I don't think the show lasted but one year, maybe two. And I believe it's only one. And then all of a sudden, going on an audition, here's Jane Orr sitting over there, you know, and and you could tell it was awkward for him. And first, now he has to go back and audition. Why don't they just offer the part to him? And it was like it was sort of a primer for me about you know, man up. This is this is the tough business here, you know. It's like it's it you gotta take the good with the bad, and you take your lumps, and and uh but you know, I think the guy Kurt Russell was always somebody I would run in, you know, run into. And he was funny. He'd always said, I'm terrible at auditions, I can't audition that's Jesus God. If I have to audition that, I'll never work. And uh, but he's one, he's he's a wonderful actor and a very funny guy and uh an old buddy. But um, yeah, I I don't remember. I mean, oh I Jeff Bridges, I remember I was I was auditioning for it was like it must have been 18 because you had the the the biggest attribute you could have to audition for the Hardy Boys, this TV pilot they were making over at uh 20th Century Fox was you had to be you had to have a draft deferment because this was back in 68, maybe 60 66 perhaps. And um so I had a I at that point had a deferment and they were doing the test, and and there there must have been 10 guys testing for Frank and Joe Hardy, you know. They they they and and they put two of them together, and this guy would do two tests with two different brothers, and uh and I was going to be in the later group, and and um so I'm wandering around just focusing and staying outside the stage because I don't want to watch anybody doing the scenes, and then at some point it's getting later and later, and I walk back inside and I hear the director and the AD, the first AD, talking about he said, Well, I think I think after this one we're done. And I said, Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. I haven't I haven't done it yet. I mean, you uh it's like I I've been here all day, and I you know, you know, I'm on the list, oh, oh, oh, yeah, right, okay, right. And and uh Fortune smiled, and and I and I got the job, but it was like that was Jeff Bridges and you know, just an assortment of of the young actors in Hollywood at the time. And you know, I when I was under contract to universal of doing the Virginian and in the three years that followed, there were a lot of young actors that I worked with that some are gone now, and and you know, um they just they you could just see that they're they weren't serious about it, you know. I mean, you know, they're they they they did it for the different reasons, you know. I did it because like when I was under contract universal after I uh did the Virginian, I had three years of two years of a contract where I was getting paid, I was putting every universal TV show that they made, but I was studying, I had Shakespeare class, I had fencing, I had dance class, I had vocal training and and Stanislavsky training and and um uh classical theater training. So I was doing everything I could to get my my Juilliard type training here in LA because I couldn't afford to quit and go to Juilliard, you know, and probably wouldn't have let me in, um, or Lambda errata in in England. So um I try to take advantage of that, and and uh I think right shortly after is it shortly after that that I went down to the Shakespeare Festival in San Diego, played Romeo and Romeo and Juliet, and it you know, and that's the kind of thing that that helped me, you know, when you when you can muscle through a season of rep um and play two or three characters, you know, eight times a week, you you build certain muscles as an actor that that are important to have. Not everybody needs that, and not every you know, it's you know, not every you know, you don't have to do theater, but um and and and I I find it very difficult to do now because you know that it's it I don't like working six days a week.

Jake Parrish 1:05:45

That's that's DS, you know what? I mean it's well you've earned your keep, so you know. I forgot that you were you did Johnny Quest. I used to watch that when I was a kid back on Cartoon Network. Do you remember anything about that? And then, like you said, Bonanza, you were like right at the end of Bananza. So weren't you right before it ended? Oh, I killed that show. Uh I doubt that.

Tim Matheson 1:06:04

It was a link be run. It was in the last episode they filmed. Okay. And I uh we were just rapping an episode, and then me and an actress named Carol Karen call Carlson. Uh we were shooting the scene, and and when we wrapped, we finished it. A D said, Hold on now, every Michael Landon wants to come in, he wants to talk to everybody. And Michael comes in, and and um news cameras were there, and it's like, what is this? What is this? And he said, You know what, guys? I have to have terrible news. I have to tell you that the NBC has canceled Bonanza. This is our last episode. This was the last scene of the last episode of Bonanza. Wow, and you know, and he loved the the men and women who worked on that show, and um, and Karen Carlson was there, and Karen was married to David Sowell, that's what it was. And um then let you know, Michael did what only he could do to try and liven the moment. He he said, Okay, this is the end of Bonanza, and I just want to say I love you all, and uh go with God, or something like that. All of a sudden, somebody steps out into frame on a camera with holding a shotgun, pointed at Michael and pulls the trigger and goes, kaboom, and he's on a jerk line and boom, and he flies back through the door. And is this you know, it was like this is the end of little Joe, boom, little Joe gets blown away, you know, ended with a with a laugh, you know. And that was Michael Landon. He was uh wonderful, so yeah, I was lucky enough, and you know, Johnny Quest. I was 15 when I auditioned for I'd never done, I'd done a little bit of voiceover, maybe, you know, a little few things here and there. It was the tail end of radio. I had done a couple of radio dramas that they still had on the air on the weekends or something. And um, but I went in, auditioned for Johnny Quest, never heard anything. I mean, four months later, I don't know who however heck long it was. And then finally they said, Yeah, you're gonna start, you got to part and you're gonna start recording. And it was like, okay. And what would happen is we all go all the actors together. It was like a radio, the old days of radio, where all the actors would be there with a script in their hand in front of a microphone, and there's a glass wall where the producer and director were, and and the technicians, and then you played it like a stage play, you know, you just played it. And I I got to I was very intimidated. I mean, I got to work with some of the best actors I've ever worked with, and you know, because these guys could do it all. I mean, Mel Blank, Don Messick, yeah uh June Foray, Alan Reed, I mean, all these people Mel Blank could play a scene between two characters and be both voices. I mean, and I I would try and do other voices, they'd say, Yeah, you know, you want to let Tim do another voice because it was like one or two lines, and I'd come up with a voice, but I'd have a hard time a hard time remembering what that voice was if it came up later. I mean, I could do me because I'm hi, I'm Johnny Quest, you know, but the other character, whatever it was, I'd forget what I was doing, you know. And they say, Oh, we'll take that one again, Tim. Here, let's play back what you did. Now do it like that. And then the the other guys were such pros. I mean, it was uh it was a great education for me to see how skilled and talented they were, and um and and wonderful people, just one pros, though they were pros.

Jake Parrish 1:09:42

Have you kept any props from any of your productions, any of your films? Um have I?

Tim Matheson 1:09:51

I you know, a couple. Uh I've got a Johnny Quest uh cell over here that Joe Barber gave me um one point, and and um but yeah, I mean I've got scripts, I've got the Animal House script, the original one. I've got a couple of t-shirts. I have a t-shirt from 1941 that Spielberg had handed out that says, I will not make this movie if it costs a penny more than 14 million dollars, and we spent 80 million, I don't know how much right, and it was his ironic way of saying, Okay, well, that was that was the good intentions, yeah. Right. Um I like 1941, I like that movie. Oh, listen, I mean, Stephen can't make a bad movie. I mean, yeah, I think I think in terms of comedic movies, you just have so many people doing the same kind of comedy. Animal House had everybody, you know, you've got flounder and and um, yeah, they're Laurel and Hart, you know, and I'm sort of Cary Grant, or I don't know, and and uh Peter Rieger's kind of like Groucho, and and you know, everybody's a little bit different. Belushi's he's like they're like in a silent comedy, they're like in a silent movie, you know, he and in and D-Day. So in 1941, I remember Danny Aykroyd, uh, who I knew slightly from the Blues Brothers and all that. Um, remember we were standing around the set one day, and here's me and Aykroyd, Candy, and John Candy and and uh all these comedy actors, you know, and he goes, you know, Steven Stephen's driving us around. It's it's like driving a Ferrari in a bumper car. You know, he's it's it's sort of being treated like that. It's like he he didn't let us do or let them do what they could do, and then and everybody was kind of doing this big broad stuff, you know. And I fortunately I had you know uh a part where I could play it pretty real, you know, within the bounds of what he was trying to get. But I you know, I knew when I took that part, I said, Well, they can just cut this sucker out of them. This is this would be could be the first thing to go if it's long. And uh fortunately that for me it didn't go, but uh I loved working with Steven. I mean, he couldn't have been kinder, gentler, and and support more supportive. If if I had an idea for a can uh shot, he said, What if we shot it? Would you ever shoot something like that? He said, Let's do that, let's do it. Put camera here, let's do that. I mean, he was he was just really, really uh a wonderful guy. And um, so um, yeah, but uh yeah, that but I don't uh I don't know that that served the material well, you know. It was uh yeah, God, I mean, I would follow Tashuram Mafuni around and and watch him work, and then you know, Slim Pickens was there, and Warren Oates, and you know, just all Robert Stack, and you know, and you'd see how those people were working. I mean, Stack played it totally straight. Um, and uh, but that was an adventure. I mean, that was like in my first big budget movie, and it was like, oh my god, I think we worked on it for six months. You know, I I I had been offered, I don't talk about it very much, but I've been offered the movie Airplane, and I couldn't do it because I was still shooting this movie and uh forever.

Jake Parrish 1:13:28

The Robert Hayes, the the Robert Hayes part in Airplane, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Robert Stack was in that, and he played it straight. Stack played it really straight in that, too. Yeah.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:13:40

And and that goes straight. And that goes back to like we were we were just yeah, we were just having that discussion that Chevy Chase actually turned down the role of Forrest Gump before it was you know offered to Tom Hanks. So I imagine what that would have been. I I don't even I can't even begin to think about what that would be.

Tim Matheson 1:13:58

Chevy's the actor for that. I mean, I don't think he could, I mean, you you gotta be a real, real film actor to do that part, you know, and and it's all about restraint. Yeah, you know, he was he was just very, very restrained and he had a limited emotional range, I think, except for inside, and and and and somebody as as wonderful as Tom Hanks, with all that heart being held back, is what sort of breaks your heart about Forrest Gump.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:14:28

I think now is is Fletch a movie that when you are recognized or somebody comes up to you, how often does Fletch get brought up as as the movie they love you in?

Tim Matheson 1:14:38

Fletch, I mean, yeah, I get the West Wing, I get Animal House certainly, um, Johnny Quest occasionally. I mean, the the funny thing is to go to Comic Con, you know, and see, oh my god, oh my god, and you don't know what they're on about, you know, and and Fletch is a good number of the uh occasions people come up. I mean, it it does resonate for a lot of people, and and uh especially film geeks, you know, um they just they eat it up.

Jake Parrish 1:15:04

Yeah. You talked about not getting or not being able to do airplane. Has there been any role that you maybe had turned down or decided not to do that you regret?

Tim Matheson 1:15:14

Yeah, there are stupid periods or choices you make uh that you go through, or where you're just too busy. And one of the things about Hollywood is like you work, you work, you work, and then finally you finish a gig. I was like I was I was doing a series at Fox called Tucker's Witch, which wasn't terribly good with Catherine Hicks, and and and God, we did I don't know, 15 episodes or whatever, and it was exhausting. And I finished with that, and then they sent me a script. My agent did and said, you know, they they're offering you this character, uh it's kind of a romantic comedy detective thing, and I just had done it, and I said, Ah, Jesus, you know, I don't know. I mean, really, with Civil Shepherd, ah, Jesus.

Jake Parrish 1:15:56

Oh wow, right?

Tim Matheson 1:15:58

Yeah, so it's blue lighting, but you know what? It would have been an entirely different thing. I mean, because Bruce Willis is just magic and and it's blue collar, you know. I'm I'm I typically didn't play blue collar, and and uh so it would have been a different dynamic. Would it have worked? Yeah, I would have worked, you know, uh my butt off to make sure it worked, but um that's one, you know, and and but the reasons were like I'm exhausted, I want to go rafting, I want to take a vacation, I don't want to go back and do a Jesus, you know, and it but it was admittedly great writing and and uh a great script, you know. Um, but there were those occasions too where you just fall out of favor or you're third on the list, you know. I remember doing um reading about the um police academy movies scripts, the first police academy. And I want to be in that movie, that's the movie I want to be in. And they don't think you're right, you know, I don't know, whatever, it's not gonna happen. And or I'm in the mix, but you know, we're gonna and I got offered a movie called Up the Creek, which I was like, okay, it's okay, it needs another rewrite, and and depends on what the director does and who the director is. But um, and so I get up the creek and I didn't get policing, I mean uh police academy, and um it's you know, it was just being in a movie which you said was almost a good script, and almost a really good movie, but there were just elements that weren't gelling, you know, it wasn't gonna and and and it you know it worked out okay, but it wasn't, you know, wasn't one of the great comedies.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:17:51

It's it's amazing how you said mentioned Comic-Con, people come up with all crazy things. The third guy, our other co-host, Bob. Believe it or not, he when he thinks of you, he thinks of you from now. His family was big Disney people, they went to Disney every year. You were part of a a ride called Body Wars. Yes.

Tim Matheson 1:18:12

Control this is Bravo 229er. We're under the skin, everything looks fine. Roger, folks, directly in front of us is a group of white blood cells on their way to destroy the splinter. There it is now. Yeah, Leonard Nemoy directed it.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:18:27

Yes, you were such a big part of his childhood because every year when he went to Disney, body you were part of body worse. So, you know, those little things that maybe you you decide to take or not take or whatever, they impact so many people that you don't realize it.

Tim Matheson 1:18:41

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's so true. I mean, um you never know, and you never know what you're gonna do that's gonna work, and you know, and and everything you work on while you're making it is this is one of the great, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna be great, you know. I mean, that was sort of why I became a director. I got paid to look at movies. Any any show I was doing, I'd find any movie that would reference what I was shooting, I would look at it because Lucas always did that. I mean, on Star Wars, he's looking at uh um world war two movies, dog fights between American and Japanese planes and German, you know, and and mining that in with with you know his spacecraft. So you steal from the best.

Jake Parrish 1:19:30

My wife, my wife loves Virgin River. Oh good. I love that. I mean, she she loves it, and I know you've done what three seasons and you've got what four at least a couple more coming up, right? We've shot, I don't know that I'm supposed to say this.

Tim Matheson 1:19:46

We've we filmed number four, season four, and um, we will be coming back for season five and starting production in mid-summer, mid mid mid-year. And you know, it what's great about it for me is it's it's such a real simple character. Um, but we have a great writer, Sue Tanny, who runs the show, and all of a sudden you'll get a script in the episode where it reveals there was one this past season. I won't tell you, I won't reveal any spoilers, but the care it revealed so much about my background that I had never known about. You know, it was like one just in one scene. I'm talking to somebody about my past and what happens, and it became very emotional. And it was like you just get gems like that, you know. She's she's really good. And and and and and you know, Doc Mullins is the character I play there, and he's just one of those simple, straight-ahead guys, sort of dedicated his life to taking care of people and wants to take care of people. And the problem of being a doctor in a small town is you know everybody, you know every patient, more than likely, you know them, and so you have an emotional attachment to them. So you you you can't let that cloud your medical advice or or or work, but oftentimes it does perhaps, or it becomes involved, it gets involved in it, so it's it's really uh, you know, and I also uh Alex Breckenridge and Martin Henderson are just so wonderful that we're all ornaments on that tree, you know, around them, and then they're just such the heart of the show. But um it it's just uh it's a it's a treat and a joy to do.

Jake Parrish 1:21:34

Well, she loves it. So oh good. What's the secret to your longevity? You've been doing it for so many years. I love it.

Tim Matheson 1:21:44

I just love it, you know. I'm more at home on a set. I mean, I came out of a broken home and and used to sit in the movies all weekend long, you know, bemoaning the fate of my parents' marriage and oh, poor me, and all this, and and fell in love and felt supported and and cared for by the movies. You know, I'd watch these great movies, and and that's when I remember seeing witness for the prosecution with Charles Lotton, and I said, That's what I want to do, I want to do what he's doing there, you know. And I think there's comfort in it watching something that never changes over and over, you can see it 10 times, and it's it's right there for you. So, but it's always been that way. I mean, I remember the first day on the first job I had, it was called Window on Main Street, a Robert Young series about a writer, famous writer comes back to his hometown and writes stories about all the townspeople. It was not a successful show. It lasted one season, 36 episodes. And um, I came in, and I'm from a lower middle class background, so you know we don't have much money. And and I come in, I get made up, and I and I go in the set. The set is his hotel suite, which is like an old Victorian kind of thing with a big marble fireplace. And God, I was just ornate, and I was like, wow, I'm in the wrist, and I'm just like a little kid just looking around, and there's marble fireplace. And I walk up to the marble fireplace and I touch and I stick my hand out and touch it, and it's not marble, it's plywood with paper on it that looks like marble. And I just went, oh my god, it's not real. It's all all it's all been fake. And I said, that's great. Because it only has to look real for that long, you know. It's yeah, just yeah, I bring marble in here and do it. And it was it was really kind of a life lesson for me, you know. I wasn't disappointed at all. I was heartened by it. I thought, well, that's that's really smart, you know. That's that's pretty good.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:24:00

Well, Tim, I can't thank you enough for all your time. And uh let's not wait another 23 years before we do another interview. Great, this is a lot of fun. Thanks. Thanks for giving me time to just spout out about a lot of do you have any any any final words for the Fletch fans out there listening who love you?

Tim Matheson 1:24:17

Well, um, yeah, just with fingers crossed that uh John Ham is uh brings it home. I just uh I'm so excited to see him do that because I just adore him as a performer. And um Matola is you know perfect guy to do it, and uh you know, they'll do it for the right reasons and make it their own, you know. So, and I think that would be a great honor to this show, you know, to the original. And and um yeah, don't don't get don't get caught trying to do Chevy.

Jake Parrish 1:24:47

Well, you're a legend, and you know, we really appreciate your time, and you know, you're such a huge part of the film, and it's so nice of you to take a few minutes or 90. That was fun to talk about it brings back great memories.

Tim Matheson 1:24:59

Thank you very, very much. And congratulations on your show, it's wonderful. Thanks, Tim.

"Laker Jim" James Kanowitz 1:25:05

Bob, what do you think of that? Um, I I couldn't be more upset that I missed out. That is that was so great. That was so what a great guy. Yeah, he really was to give us that kind of time, and honestly, he he told us, you know, off recording that how much Fletch means to him and how much the fans mean to him. So it was really nice. I'll pull the curtain back a little more. Five minutes before our interview with Tim Matheson, Jake's microphone dies. Oh, we can't get it back. Yes, we tried everything. We restarted the computers, we restarted the system, we restarted the zoom. It was like utter panic. We Jake came back audio-wise a minute before our interview with Tim Matheson. Yeah, it had to be divine intervention or something. The only thing I can think of was the maker himself, Gregory McDonald, reached down and reconnected your audio for that. That's the only explanation. That's a very nice thought, and I'll go with that. On that note, we are going to end this episode of Fletchcast. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed our interview with the former VP of Boyd Aviation. I'd like to once again thank Tim Matson. We really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for your time. If you haven't checked out his show, Virgin River yet, please do so. It's streaming on Netflix. We just started watching it and we're hooked. If you're a fan of Tim Madison, you're gonna love it. Stars and it directs it. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It'll be doing me and my family a great service. We're not sure how, but it helps the podcast grow. Follow us on social media. We're at implexcast. The letter I, the letter M Plexcast. If you want to follow Tim Matt, at Tim L Matt D-I-M-L-M-A-T-E-2. We want to hear from you. Don't forget to call FletchCat. The number is 267-714-6799. And don't worry about writing it down. It's listed everywhere. If you follow us, you can call in. We want to hear the lines open 24-7. Fall in with ideas, suggestions, comments, questions, or date, for Bob, for Times, for the Family Azure Fanny. I'm looking at K. I think we're all gonna go through it.

Tim Matheson 1:27:39

Congratulations. Thank you, control. Folks, you can unlatch your safety belt by pushing the button on your left. Please exit the ship to your right. Don't forget your personal belongings and welcome home.